SGC 9mm - Catastorphic Failure - Almost lost an eye :(

[Charlotte the flyer]

2 Do not post that 1 of the bullets got stuck in the lands due to not enough crimp (pigeon watch)

or "first 30 were strange as they were crimped to the point of indenting the bullet but it was still able to be rotated". (FBUK) see post from Tackb on 9mm reloading Darwin award.

5 Do not try a reloaded round from anyone who did num 2 .

Can someone tell me how you work out what is 'enough crimp'. I've just loaded a batch, my first reloads actually. I used the Lee die set and applied what I believe to be a light crimp using the seater die. The bullets don't move and there is no sign of indentation in the boolit, the case is flared slightly due to the bullet seating in it.

Advice gratefully received before I pull the trigger

[Dangermouse]

Not very scientific, but why not make a round minus primer and powder. Measure the OAL then feed it through your gun. Then measure it again and see if it is the same length. Any shorter and I would suggest you look again at your process.

DM

[toffe wrapper]

CTF

The crimp you need is a taper crimp to just remove the flare. Make 5 or 6 drill rounds and test function several times in rifle before trying the live rounds then check OAL etc for any signs of movement.
Do you have the factory crimp die if you do that will taper crimp not sure if seating die does roll or taper. I just use the seating die to seat then use factory crimp die to crimp and final size round. The finished round will have a slight coke bottle shape. Google 9mm coke bottle shape for info but if the drill rounds chamber and function with no issues you will be fine.

TW

[Charlotte the flyer]

:goodjob: Thanks

As it happens I did a few tester drill rounds first and they fed fine. I didn't measure before/after though so I'll do it again and see what happens.

Thanks for the responses..

[phaedra1106]

Just to clarify a couple of things,

The 9mm bullet that got stuck in the lands was not from a fired round, it was from a round that had previously failed to chamber due to the well known feed problems. It subsequently turned out that the force of the bolt jamming the round against the barrel throat was causing indentations in some of the cases, when the round was fed a second time the bullet came out. JonathanL (who is a qualified range officer) on the PW forum had inspected the rounds at the time and agreed they were sufficiently crimped.

The bullets which were rotating in the cases were from a box of Berrys Plated, the other boxes crimped without any problems at all, obviously the bullets in question were thrown away and not re-used. They were crimped with a Lee factory crimp set at +1/2 turn (as they recommend) this was increased to +1 turn for maximum crimp.

There are photos of the indented cases on the 9mm thread of if the hosting is not available there is one here,

And a photo of the feed problem showing the out of position feed ramp stopping the bolt travel and jamming the round here,


Also worth mentioning is that at the time of the failure it was shooting PRVI factory ammo not reloads. I have no knowledge of Gregs (other blown up owner) reloading info but from what I was initially told by Mark Bradley it was the excessive removal of material from the throat to try and improve the feed problems which was his biggest concern as there was a sizeable amount of the case with nothing to contain the pressure as a result. Both rifles have been re-barreled as a result.

[John MH]

As an aside why would the opinion of a qualified Range Officer be of any consequence, do the NRA now cover hand loading on their RCO course?

On most NATO 9mm you'll find that the bullet is, as well as crimped, sealed/glued into the case as the are usually a bugger to pull.

[phaedra1106]

Then perhaps I should have said one of range staff who also runs a full-bore rifle club and is an experienced reloader looked at them, basically not just some guy saying they look OK to me. After the separating bullet case he checked all of the remaining rounds (which had not been chambered) and all were deemed to be OK, no loose bullets, none that would push into the case etc. They all shot without a problem.

The problem with the 30 loose bullets was we believe that they were crimped twice, once at +1/4 turn and again at +1/2 a turn to increase the crimp, apparently it's a known problem with Berrys plated bullets (those without a cannelure). While they were loose enough to force to rotate in the case (not push down vertically) they were certainly not easy to get back out, it took several whacks of the kinetic puller to remove them.

[toffe wrapper]

Glad you cleared that up, only quoted direct from your own posts and at no time did I say the gun going boom was down to your ammo. But how many did you make with rotating bullets before you noticed. Should have found it when you checked the first 1 off the press, reloading 101 check check and check again. The reason they were turning was proberbly a roll crimp gripping in then springing out a fraction = bullet tight to pull out but rotating just like some 22lr bullets do.

As it was factory ammo you have not mentioned what the ammo maker importer or shop has said, I have had privi 308 with loose bullets that pushed into case and were under size so returned the for refund. Proof of you using factory would have been purchase on your ticket for redress via shop sale of good act. If not on ticket but club ammo did club quarantine the ammo take batch numbers prod date etc then return to supplier for return to manufacture for checking and inform NRA of incident and cause. A recall notice may have then been issued for that batch or date run.

RCO / range staff that runs club checking ammo = just some guy unless he is an ammo tech as well and I think not (no disrespect to ammo techs its a dangerous job). If he was you would have been stoped from firing a deformed round had all your ammo and equipment checked then asked to leave the range if any was found to be suspect. Even squaddies are told from day 1 check condition of rounds and do not use if damaged or deformed. This is why safe shooter system had to be brought in to make people accountable.
I saw a 10mm glock explode at the Hardy shoot 1 year it belonged to a member of my then club. He just blamed his reloads possible dbl charge or low charge picked up the bits and then got the cuts to his hands fixed while trying not shake and was happy it was not worse.

TW