The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

People need to be careful of what?

HH1 wrote: Mr E, its one thing to post on forums and in closed FaceBook groups..... but do you think it is wise to Publically post on senior politicians FB walls were possibly millions of members of the public (and the Police) can read you views on guns and shooting?

I'm just saying that people need to be careful.

On the contrary - I think more shooters need to be open about their interest.

We are not criminals, we don't want to hurt anyone - we're simply enjoying the pastime of target sports. Something that can be enjoyable and very positive.

I stand by what I say - even on forums such as this, it's fairly trivial for anyone (general public, police, government etc.) to work out who I am, with a fairly cursory investigation.

People are free to disagree, but if I'm going to be damned, it will not be because I was afraid to state my position.

Mikaveli wrote:Here's what I posted on to Amber Rudd's Facebook page:

I read the proposed consultation on "offensive weapons" with interest.
I'm interested to know what the motivation is to reclassify .50 calibre rifles to section 5 is (this effectively bans them)? Whilst 50 cal is on the extreme end of the power scale, I'm not sure this increases the risk to the public over other long range calibres (many are capable of even greater ranges due to ballistics).

Considering that only single shot rifles are available (no semi or full auto) and only target ammunition is available (no explosive or armour-piercing etc.) I don't believe they are more dangerous than other HME rifles. Add to the fact that unlike other target rifles, 50 cal is conditioned so only the specific licence holder can use it (on specific ranges you have to prove access to), I'd assert our existing controls are working.

I'm also believe there hasn't been a single case of one of these rifles being used in a crime - please correct me if I am wrong?

I don't own (or plan to) own a 50 cal, but I believe they are being targeted unfairly. I certainly don't live in fear of "50 cal crime".

Please write to you MPs and representatives - be polite, be positive and be constructive.

Thanks.

I hope you don't mind but I b****** your note to write to my MP; if anyone wishes to use it or the bulk of it then feel free:

I read the proposed consultation on "offensive weapons" with interest.
I'm interested to know what the motivation is to reclassify .50 calibre rifles to section 5 is which will effectively bans the items. Whilst .50 calibre is on the extreme end of the power scale, I don’t believe this specific calibre increases the risk to the public over any other calibre available in the UK.

Considering that only manually operated rifles are available (no semi or full auto) and only target ammunition is available (no explosive or armour-piercing etc.) I don't believe they present an increased danger than any other firearm. Add to the fact that unlike other target rifles, .50 cal is conditioned so only the specific licence holder can use it (on specific ranges you have to prove access to), I'd therefore assert our existing controls are working.

I also not aware of a single case of one of these rifles being used in a crime – given the nature of these firearms, they are bulky, heavy and require plenty of skill and practice to use properly. As it stands they are difficult even as a licensed civilian to obtain and use; there are a limited number of ranges certified to use them. Additionally the cost of ammunition further creates a barrier to entry, at between £5-9 per round it is really only pursed by committed hobbyists/ competitors. It therefore does not stand out to me as a viable gun to use to commit any form of crime.

I’m also intrigued by the definition of ‘rapid firing’ firearms. As you are no doubt aware self-loading and automatic centrefire long arms and pistols (rimfire pistols too) are Section 5 in the UK. I would suggest that these laws have purely limited legal ownership, with illegal users continuing to source and use these items at their will. Further restrictions to whatever is deemed ‘rapid firing’ will once again only stop legitimate and legal users of these items. Again I’d be interested to know the number of crimes this classification of firearms has been used in.

Aside from the terrible tragedy in the United States in the past week, I’m concerned at the further encroaching legitimate ownership of firearms in this country. Unlike the States, as firearm owners we are thoroughly regulated with stringent controls on use, access and levels of ownership. I am of the opinion that we are some of the most trustworthy and transparent individuals in society. I fully support licensing in the UK and whilst no system is perfect I think it serves to keep firearms in legitimate users hands. Be the use sporting or hunting, I don’t believe one particular subset of a sport should be penalised further by nonsensical legislation.

For the record I do not own a .50 calibre firearm and don’t intend to, however I view this as a gradual erosion of legal firearm ownership in the UK, which one-day might affect the shooting sports I participate in.

JS569 wrote: I hope you don't mind but I b****** your note to write to my MP; if anyone wishes to use it or the bulk of it then feel free:

I read the proposed consultation on "offensive weapons" with interest.
I'm interested to know what the motivation is to reclassify .50 calibre rifles to section 5 is which will effectively bans the items. Whilst .50 calibre is on the extreme end of the power scale, I don’t believe this specific calibre increases the risk to the public over any other calibre available in the UK.

Considering that only manually operated rifles are available (no semi or full auto) and only target ammunition is available (no explosive or armour-piercing etc.) I don't believe they present an increased danger than any other firearm. Add to the fact that unlike other target rifles, .50 cal is conditioned so only the specific licence holder can use it (on specific ranges you have to prove access to), I'd therefore assert our existing controls are working.

I also not aware of a single case of one of these rifles being used in a crime – given the nature of these firearms, they are bulky, heavy and require plenty of skill and practice to use properly. As it stands they are difficult even as a licensed civilian to obtain and use; there are a limited number of ranges certified to use them. Additionally the cost of ammunition further creates a barrier to entry, at between £5-9 per round it is really only pursed by committed hobbyists/ competitors. It therefore does not stand out to me as a viable gun to use to commit any form of crime.

I’m also intrigued by the definition of ‘rapid firing’ firearms. As you are no doubt aware self-loading and automatic centrefire long arms and pistols (rimfire pistols too) are Section 5 in the UK. I would suggest that these laws have purely limited legal ownership, with illegal users continuing to source and use these items at their will. Further restrictions to whatever is deemed ‘rapid firing’ will once again only stop legitimate and legal users of these items. Again I’d be interested to know the number of crimes this classification of firearms has been used in.

Aside from the terrible tragedy in the United States in the past week, I’m concerned at the further encroaching legitimate ownership of firearms in this country. Unlike the States, as firearm owners we are thoroughly regulated with stringent controls on use, access and levels of ownership. I am of the opinion that we are some of the most trustworthy and transparent individuals in society. I fully support licensing in the UK and whilst no system is perfect I think it serves to keep firearms in legitimate users hands. Be the use sporting or hunting, I don’t believe one particular subset of a sport should be penalised further by nonsensical legislation.

For the record I do not own a .50 calibre firearm and don’t intend to, however I view this as a gradual erosion of legal firearm ownership in the UK, which one-day might affect the shooting sports I participate in.

Not at all.

HH1 wrote:
Mr E, its one thing to post on forums and in closed FaceBook groups..... but do you think it is wise to Publically post on senior politicians FB walls were possibly millions of members of the public (and the Police) can read you views on guns and shooting?

I'm just saying that people need to be careful.

You mean perhaps we should go for the tippy-toes, softly softly, forelock tugging, don't rock the boat approach that has stood us in such good stead following Hungerford and Dunblane?
Third time lucky?

Personally I think it's time we became an organized bloody nuisance that locked governments into long and expensive debate to the point that every time some greasy politician looked to us as a stepping stone to their career wiser heads round the table gave them a slap. We need a Nigel Farage to represent an entirely different movement to the impotent organizations we have now. In fact, we need the actual Nigel Farage. I wonder if he's a shooting man?

Mikaveli - keep posting - wherever you feel like.

I have contacted our local PCC, really just to remind them that this consultation needs attention.

Also...if the police wants to identify anyone of us on this forum, I am pretty sure they can.

Dark Skies wrote:

HH1 wrote:
Mr E, its one thing to post on forums and in closed FaceBook groups..... but do you think it is wise to Publically post on senior politicians FB walls were possibly millions of members of the public (and the Police) can read you views on guns and shooting?

I'm just saying that people need to be careful.

You mean perhaps we should go for the tippy-toes, softly softly, forelock tugging, don't rock the boat approach that has stood us in such good stead following Hungerford and Dunblane?
Third time lucky?

Personally I think it's time we became an organized bloody nuisance that locked governments into long and expensive debate to the point that every time some greasy politician looked to us as a stepping stone to their career wiser heads round the table gave them a slap. We need a Nigel Farage to represent an entirely different movement to the impotent organizations we have now. In fact, we need the actual Nigel Farage. I wonder if he's a shooting man?

Farage strikes me as a man that would fight that corner if you asked him too (or paid). I'm fairly ambivalent to him but given his previous success I think he would actually do a good job and create plenty of press.

Strangely Brown wrote:

joe wrote: Is this official government policy or was slipped in by acpo etc ??0

Joe,
ACPO don't officially exist anymore...but I feel their hand in this!

lets not forget NABIS either

I wish we lived in a country where it was possible to promote our sport and put ourselves out there in the public eye as legitimate gun owners enjoying our chosen sport just like anyone else..... but it is not safe to do so.

I cringe when I see BASC stickers on cars at the local MOD range (which is on open view to the general public)... and then the members drive in convoy to the local pub and step out wearing tweed or combats.... it's not difficult for criminals to work out that this group of people are a shooting party who are likely to have guns and for them to either break into the vehicles or follow individual members home.

Perhaps I am being over-cautious, but we have had a fair number of club members followed home, assaulted in their driveways and guns stolen because a certain RFD wasn't careful enough with personal data.

Seriously. Do you use a mobile phone in the street? Do you wear a watch or jewellery? Drive a nice car, live in a nice area or even wear nice trainers? It's not difficult to come to attention of criminals in everything you do.

And as for cringing when you see a BASC sticker on a car at the range?!!

Shooting is NOT a criminal, unlawful or perverted activity. Stop behaving as if you have a "dirty" secret!