Emergencies on the range - how prepared are you?

[Gundoc]

My club has several people who have trauma kits with them on the range, a few of us even know what to do with them...
The range brief prior to every shoot includes th details about not mentioning someone has been shot, but giving the club address and saying there has been an accident.

To be fair I personally think anyone using firearms should have training in what to do if said firearm is discharged and hits another human being for whatever reason.

[Gazoo]

A huge mistake regarding range accidents is how they are alerted to the emergency services.

Most of this will be commons sense to most, but as we all know common sense isn't a flower that grows in everyone's garden.

Mentioning 'someone's been shot' to 999 slows everything down, waiting for the police to rock up and declare the scene safe for paramedics could take months.

I'm only being slightly sarcastic.

Ultimately command, control and communication under conditions of crisis is hugely important and next to providing a rapid pre hospital trauma assessment and if necessary basic life support, is the most important thing you can do to get the casualty to definitive care.

An emergency response plan should be planned and drilled, and depending on your clubs position and layout there should be provision for members to get hi viz'd and and positioned on any boundaries with the road, and others to move their vehicles to emergency positions - ensuring that emergency vehicles can enter, collect a casualty, turn around and get to definitive care.

Depending on what the operator asks you, the essential takeaways are that information should be lacking in emotive language, fact not flapping.

1) Call 999 - Ambulance please - there's been an 'accident at our target shooting club' NOT 'someone's been shot' or 'a guns exploded'.

If the incident wasn't caused by firearms ie a heart attack, 'my mate was clutching his chest and is now unconscious' NOT 'my mate was shooting and then...'


2) There's no further danger, all guns and ammunition have been locked away.

They want to know the scene is safe.


3) Take note of the injury and the type of ammunition used.

Expanding ammunition is occasionally used on ranges, furthermore non metallic ammo is becoming more common place, causing issues for radiographers although imagine would be visible on MRI - Odd Jobs area, not mine.

Much more could be said, back of a fag packet stuff.

I have some points.
first, what 5th Gen says is VERY true, you phone 999 and say someone is shot then everything goes backwards, take my word as a person who has spent hours waiting for the all clear before going for a victim AND as a supervisor who has ordered a crew to stand down until that happened . It has to be done like that so introduce the shooting range side very carefully.
Second, I am also a remote area medic and have practiced in hostile and remote areas but in the UK, if you have, and are ready to use invasive treatment on people then make sure you have medical indemnity insurance. If you are a member of the Coll of Paramedics this covers you for that sort of thing, but be warned if you haven't got it, no matter how good your intentions are, your house is at risk !!!
Third, I have seen much blood shed, broken bones and even deaths at sporting events over the years, not one was a shooting event though so IMHO a good first aid kit and (outside ) range coordinates for the helicopter or the post code for the indoor range is probably good enough.
We have a fine track record to be proud of.
As for tourniquets , they are fine bits of kit and I recently purchased 2 from ebay for my ship as they only had surgical ones for getting a vein up, but when taking the officers and casualty teams through the training, they all said their course had forbidden the use. So if I am on board I will apply one if needed, and have given strict instructions that if I am the one whose arm gets ripped off ....I want the Ba$&ard tourniquet !!!
but remember the insurance folks cos you might save a blokes life, or you might not, but there is always a slimy little lawyer whispering in a crippled man's, or widows ear

[Racalman]

...but remember the insurance folks cos you might save a blokes life, or you might not, but there is always a slimy little lawyer whispering in a crippled man's, or widows ear

We were told emphatically on our First Aid courses that you cannot be sued if someone you are trying to help gets worse as a result of your efforts.

Well, they can sue you but won't succeed because of previous case law.

[Brookers]

...but remember the insurance folks cos you might save a blokes life, or you might not, but there is always a slimy little lawyer whispering in a crippled man's, or widows ear

We were told emphatically on our First Aid courses that you cannot be sued if someone you are trying to help gets worse as a result of your efforts.

Well, they can sue you but won't succeed because of previous case law.

This is exactly what I was told on my most recent first aid course as well.
The new range I'm building is only 200m from the ambulance station so I expect we will have help pretty quickly if it's ever needed.

Brookers

[Odd Job]

You are only protected from a civil case if you stay in your lane. I'll be covered if I break some ribs doing CPR according to the resus council guidelines, but if I stick a tampon in a gunshot wound and the patient suffers adverse effects such as an infection, I'll have no protection.
Same applies to a choking victim. Abdominal thrusts will be okay but if I don't win with those it doesn't mean I can whip out a Swiss army knife and perform a cricotomy. I would be liable for any misadventure since a radiographer is out of his lane when performing that procedure.

[5thGen]

The UK doesn't have a good Samaritans law - even though Davey C wanted one.

The fact is thus far, as far as I'm aware, there haven't been any convictions or charges brought against people helping in medical emergencies.

Odd Job is spot on, stick to what you know - makes sense in all things, having said that in the case of a blocked airway it COULD be argued performing a cric or trach (after repeated unsuccessful abdominal thrusts / blows to the back), even with ZERO training, is NOT going to result in any MORE harm than would have occurred without invasive intervention - DEATH.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not advocating anyone doing anything they shouldn't - PURELY a point of discussion - hence the CAPITALS!

[breacher]

...but remember the insurance folks cos you might save a blokes life, or you might not, but there is always a slimy little lawyer whispering in a crippled man's, or widows ear

We were told emphatically on our First Aid courses that you cannot be sued if someone you are trying to help gets worse as a result of your efforts.

Well, they can sue you but won't succeed because of previous case law.

This is exactly what I was told on my most recent first aid course as well.
The new range I'm building is only 200m from the ambulance station so I expect we will have help pretty quickly if it's ever needed.

Brookers

Surely if you have been negligent in the application of first aid, you can be held responsible and thus sued ?

[meles meles]

The case, ooman, is simple:

A. Apply first aid, get it wrong, someone may die
B. Don't apply first aid, someone may be more likley to die

We think A is the better option but we are considering applying for a variation for a pistol for Human Despatch

[tackb]

I would rather someone sued me for saving their life or at least trying than live with the guilt of standing by and watching someone die despite having knowledge that may help ?

hopefully a court would see it that way to !

[bigfathairybiker]

I would have thought that even if you are insured , if you attempt something you are not qualified to do then the insurance company could invalidate the policy...

Mark