The old chestnut of firearms for self defence - a question..

[Sim G]

No, but real world experience does

But you are not the only one who also has that "experience"

[ordnance]

Northern Ireland has the lowest crime rate per capita of the U.K. Coincidence...?

Some come up with rubbish like if the police are armed then criminals will arm themselves the opposite is true.

[AJSawyer]

my GF works in a kids home, basically little s*** that aren't bad enough for prison, but have done things that means the parents don't want them around themselves anymore. social service ping pong balls... anyway, the other night, the 3 kids that are in their house decided to go out, due to shortcomings of some of the staff and the fact the home doesn't have an alarm at present, they snuck out.
they went to a local woman's house that one of them knew, they then proceeded to attempt to break in, the woman heard and investigated, they hid, she looked around, then lights off again, they then got the door open, but disturbed her again. she shut the door and went back in again. they then got in the house on third attempt, she confronted 2 of them as the 3rd (who was the one that knew her was hiding outside) they pretended they'd been chased and she went to call the police. leaving them alone, they then took her purse and car keys, and stole her car. they were caught halfway up the m1 at around 1am in her ford focus, after a chase and subsequent crash.
these kids are between 10 and 14....
my GF was in their police interviews, apparently the original plan was to break in and attack the woman (in her 50's, who lives alone) and judging by some of their past history, I would fully suspect sexual assault. It was only because she was then awake that this didn't happen. and the one kid who knew her, was even quoted by both kids as asking them why they didnt just beat the s*** out of her when they got inside, rather than the story of being chased.
I'll say again, between 10 and 14.
are you going to expect if 3 little kids run up to you and ask for help that they will then attack you? and I know it sounds daft, could you defend yourself against 3 of them if they did try?

this is the youth of today, and the sort of 'kids' our police have to deal with. law abiding people live in fear of the law, the ones who break it realise there are no consequences and so do as they please

Absolutely, but it's reform of our prison and criminal justice system that will make the difference, not guns.

Both are just as unlikely to happen though.



And Sim, you're right, but it's still a minority of people.

[breacher]

Good points Sim but................

And exactly the same argument to those who say, "Would you trust these people". Well, as this is a shooting forum, we've all been around guns and ranges. I'm curious as to why someone would think that all of a sudden, the bloke who he once lay next to shooting a 300 yard bullseye with no issues, would all of a sudden become a raging lunatic or an incompetent because he was allowed a different type of firearm in a different situation?

Funny you should say that - I have noticed a big difference in safety drills between, for example, F-Class and CSR.

I have shot with quite a few F-Class shooters with whom I would not have felt quite so safe if fire and movement was involved.

[bradaz11]

Absolutely, but it's reform of our prison and criminal justice system that will make the difference, not guns.

Both are just as unlikely to happen though.



And Sim, you're right, but it's still a minority of people.

reform of the prison and justice system only help when they are caught, or to put them off in the first instance. it is of no help to the people the crimes are already happening to.

[breacher]

Winter coat example - I guess I would be more likely to buy a winter coat if I lived in Alaska and less likely to buy one if I lived in Brazil.

[AJSawyer]

There is no way to regulate and check the decision making abilities, or competence of people who would be permitted to possess firearms for self defence. That is my issue with it.

I don't want Mr Trigger happy from down the range who thinks he is a Navy SEAL busting out his Glock every time he feels afraid.

I think these are my parting words on the matter. Good discussion.

[joe]

I'm going to out myself here. I'm a copper. I work in a major UK City, I carry a pathetic baton that would probably collapse the moment I tried to hit someone with it, and a spray that does me more harm than the threat. I deal with violent people on a weekly, but mostly daily basis.

I do not feel the need to carry a firearm. I'm at risk. I don't want one, I don't need one.

I really enjoy shooting, and find firearms interesting, but do I need one for self defence? Absolutely not

If you were a police officer here you would have a different view on carrying a firearm, as for your self defence its not just about you defending yourself. Part of your job is defending the public, if for example the police first on the sceen of the cumbria shootings had to back off because they were not armed they might have being able to save lives if they were armed.





As for America were they can carry firearms for self defence, its still a minority that carry firearms.

not all states ! the states that allow it you must get permisson from the local chief of police ie a permit then go through approved training class before let loose ! if these LEGAL gun owners with PPW's were shooting each other, innocennt bystanders, playing hero etc then those states would ban it ! not one state that has introduced it has banned it ! so what does that tell you ! as for the UK i'm not sure however saying that if the americans and some eurpreans can do it without casuing blood on the streets then i pretty sure that the FAC holder can with the right training be trusted.
the very least we should be allowed to defend our homes how we see fit, including the use of a firearm if he feel his life is endanger !

another thing, the bil of rights clearly states the citzens right to self defence with a firearm ! this clause hasnt been removed from the statute book either !

[safetyfirst]

Not once despite living in hare hills Leeds for five years where seven people were killed in the time I was there. Then living in Beeston in Leeds which was rough as f*ck.

Nor have I ever met anyone who would have been better off in any of their experiences being robbed or burgled if they'd had a gun.

Living in a society where you just don't need a gun for self defence is a luxury I'll not surrender lightly.

<tosses hat in ring>

The requirement of firearms for self defence is the mark of a severely damaged society.

<drops mic, walks off>

[safetyfirst]

my GF works in a kids home, basically little s*** that aren't bad enough for prison, but have done things that means the parents don't want them around themselves anymore. social service ping pong balls... anyway, the other night, the 3 kids that are in their house decided to go out, due to shortcomings of some of the staff and the fact the home doesn't have an alarm at present, they snuck out.
they went to a local woman's house that one of them knew, they then proceeded to attempt to break in, the woman heard and investigated, they hid, she looked around, then lights off again, they then got the door open, but disturbed her again. she shut the door and went back in again. they then got in the house on third attempt, she confronted 2 of them as the 3rd (who was the one that knew her was hiding outside) they pretended they'd been chased and she went to call the police. leaving them alone, they then took her purse and car keys, and stole her car. they were caught halfway up the m1 at around 1am in her ford focus, after a chase and subsequent crash.
these kids are between 10 and 14....
my GF was in their police interviews, apparently the original plan was to break in and attack the woman (in her 50's, who lives alone) and judging by some of their past history, I would fully suspect sexual assault. It was only because she was then awake that this didn't happen. and the one kid who knew her, was even quoted by both kids as asking them why they didnt just beat the s*** out of her when they got inside, rather than the story of being chased.
I'll say again, between 10 and 14.
are you going to expect if 3 little kids run up to you and ask for help that they will then attack you? and I know it sounds daft, could you defend yourself against 3 of them if they did try?

this is the youth of today, and the sort of 'kids' our police have to deal with. law abiding people live in fear of the law, the ones who break it realise there are no consequences and so do as they please

thank f*ck they didn't get shot and might get a chance to redeem themselves.