The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

People who call for it here harm our sport and are verging on being dangerous fantasists

Yeah yeah there is always some story of some bloke

Again would you feel brave enough?

On Saturday 13 June 1981, Sammy Brush was doing his rounds as a postman. Fortuitously, under his jacket and shirt, he was wearing light body armour. At around 1.00 pm, he arrived to deliver a letter at the home of Mrs Mary McGarvey, who, along with her sister, had been held at gunpoint from six o'clock that morning by two gunmen. He posted the letter and was turning to get back into his post van when a gunman appeared from the side of the house and, from a distance of 10 to 12 feet, fired two shots at him from a revolver. As the first shot hit, it drove the body armour into his chest. The second hit his right shoulder and then ricocheted into his body, passing through his lung and half an inch from his spine.

He turned and ran up the laneway. A hail of gunfire followed him. He was shot twice more in his back, and four other bullets went through his Post Office jacket but missed his body. Sammy attempted to draw his personal protection weapon with his right hand, but the shot to his shoulder prevented him from being able to pull his gun out of its holster. With his left hand, he managed to grasp his weapon and return fire. In spite of being badly injured, and in spite of the stress and gravity of the moment, he succeeded in shooting one of his attackers. However, he knew that there was at least one other gunman pursuing him. Losing blood and in pain, Sammy knew that his life depended on being able to get into his van and drive clear of the ambush site. He successfully struggled back to his vehicle and managed to drive to Ballygawley police station, from where he was taken to the South Tyrone Hospital.

As I drove down the lane to the house I had my gun [a Walther pistol] under a coat on the front seat,” Eric recalled.
“The minute I pulled up one guy came to the driver’s door — he had a gun [an automatic rifle] with binder twine on it slung round his neck — and the other one had a revolver. They came running out shouting and swearing ‘get out of the van — IRA’.
“The one with the revolver ran up to the passenger door.
“I cocked the gun and fired three shots out through the passenger side,” Eric said. The body of Joe MacManus, 21, from Sligo was later recovered from the scene.
“I swung round quick and pushed the door into the other guy. He had the rifle round his neck on the string and was going to use his hands to get me out of the van but he ran off.”
Eric took cover behind the front wheel of the van and opened fire on two further gunmen armed with Kalashnikov-type rifles behind a low wall no more than 20 metres away.

Mr_Logic wrote:Standing up for something you believe in gives ammo to the antis? Man that's so full of s*** I can't even believe it.

You might not agree, fine, but our view in no way harms anything, it's just different than yours.

I think your views remove self defence and cost lives, but unlike you I don't make stupid comments - you're wrong, but everyone has a right to be stupid. They don't have a right to stop others thinking.

lapua338 wrote:

People who call for it here harm our sport and are verging on being dangerous fantasists

It is beyond my comprehension why someone would be so opposed to concealed carrying of handguns for personal protection?

My friend has been a Rangemaster for Gunsite Academy since 1985. He instructs a diverse range of clients from teaching novices handgun fundamentals to serving law enforcement operators advanced classes. This is a man who's also been doing it for real in law enforcement for over twenty-five years.

It is all about dynamic training and learning how to apply the firearm appropriately. This is not UIT pistol shooting nor is it IPSC-style target shooting. This is a skillset that requires continuous practice.

Armed citizen(s) with appropriate training and forceful action may have saved lives that day. The assailants knew that these people were soft targets and that no one in that building would have the ability to defend themselves.

Sim G wrote:Your caveat is far too convoluted to be considered. Far too many ifs, buts and maybes. Fact is, aggression and violence can come your way at anytime and invariably when you least expect it. From what you have written, you appear not to have had say serious study into the question, nor any practical or anecdotal experience. That doesn't mean you can't have an opinion, far from it. But it is my belief your opinion is wrong.

And no, I didn't freeze.

ordnance wrote:

Yeah yeah there is always some story of some bloke

Again would you feel brave enough?

I haven't a clue if I would be brave enough, no one knows what they would do in that situation. I am sure guy I was talking about below didn't if he would be brave enough as you call it. Maybe he should have taken the sort of advice you are giving out, there is no point of having a firearm because you won't get the chance to use it , or you won't be brave enough.

On Saturday 13 June 1981, Sammy Brush was doing his rounds as a postman. Fortuitously, under his jacket and shirt, he was wearing light body armour. At around 1.00 pm, he arrived to deliver a letter at the home of Mrs Mary McGarvey, who, along with her sister, had been held at gunpoint from six o'clock that morning by two gunmen. He posted the letter and was turning to get back into his post van when a gunman appeared from the side of the house and, from a distance of 10 to 12 feet, fired two shots at him from a revolver. As the first shot hit, it drove the body armour into his chest. The second hit his right shoulder and then ricocheted into his body, passing through his lung and half an inch from his spine.

He turned and ran up the laneway. A hail of gunfire followed him. He was shot twice more in his back, and four other bullets went through his Post Office jacket but missed his body. Sammy attempted to draw his personal protection weapon with his right hand, but the shot to his shoulder prevented him from being able to pull his gun out of its holster. With his left hand, he managed to grasp his weapon and return fire. In spite of being badly injured, and in spite of the stress and gravity of the moment, he succeeded in shooting one of his attackers. However, he knew that there was at least one other gunman pursuing him. Losing blood and in pain, Sammy knew that his life depended on being able to get into his van and drive clear of the ambush site. He successfully struggled back to his vehicle and managed to drive to Ballygawley police station, from where he was taken to the South Tyrone Hospital.

As I drove down the lane to the house I had my gun [a Walther pistol] under a coat on the front seat,” Eric recalled.
“The minute I pulled up one guy came to the driver’s door — he had a gun [an automatic rifle] with binder twine on it slung round his neck — and the other one had a revolver. They came running out shouting and swearing ‘get out of the van — IRA’.
“The one with the revolver ran up to the passenger door.
“I cocked the gun and fired three shots out through the passenger side,” Eric said. The body of Joe MacManus, 21, from Sligo was later recovered from the scene.
“I swung round quick and pushed the door into the other guy. He had the rifle round his neck on the string and was going to use his hands to get me out of the van but he ran off.”
Eric took cover behind the front wheel of the van and opened fire on two further gunmen armed with Kalashnikov-type rifles behind a low wall no more than 20 metres away.

froggy wrote:Re- Fedaykin

You are making a judgement based on a completely different situation where the threat was purely a "common criminal" one. I am not confident you fully understand we are facing now a new very imaginative "terrorist" threat .
Intel gathering is obviously the most efficient form of protection agst organised cells but even that has been hampered by the opposition from the left & the Liberals.
Agst individual "lone wolf" type of action there is little we can do short of putting an armed policeman, or an army personnel (French plan Vigipirate) at every street corner.

Israel is probably the only country in the world with a past track record facing the muslim threat that is now emerging on our streets. Based on their experience and the financial impossibility to increase officers numbers, the police created Mash'az in the 70's . It is formed of 70,000 vetted members of the public (1% of the population) that received basic training and are issued with a hig-vis vest, a radio and a USM1 but carry their own handgun. They are 100% volunteers and function a bit like "special constables" here giving some of their free time .

So you are entitled to your fancy abstracts theories and "TOTAL BOLLARDS" opinion but in the real world it works ...