'New' firearms transfer/purchase method

[dromia]

There is no extra work for police forces if the transfer goes through RFDs as opposed to a direct face to face.

[Blackstuff]

There is no extra work for police forces if the transfer goes through RFDs as opposed to a direct face to face.

Why do we pay 'transfer fees' then?

[dromia]

Because it is extra work for the RFD and the RFD notifies the police of a transfer when they enter a firearm onto an FAC as does the recipient.

Transfer fees are also a way of managing the work, for example if you did it for free that is all you would do for a goodly part of your time as everyone would use you. Receiving a fire arm, unpacking it, recording it, contacting the recipient that you have it and then the time with them as they inspect it, ask you questions about it, then entering it onto the recipients FAC can take up a lot more time than you would think.

[Blackstuff]

But if using the 'new' system, surely the gun doesn't need to go on the RFD's 'books'? The paper work has been done by the buyer and seller. The buyers FAC and transfer notification to the police will record he got the gun from the seller, not which RFD he happened to pick it up from?

And the guidance on the photo i posted says that the receiving RFD doesn't need to info the police

[dromia]

If I get a gun in then it goes on my register and will go off my register to the recipient. No I won't notify the police in this instance as it is already on the certificate, that is the only difference to an RFD in practice. All the other work attendant to a transfer still has to be done other than entering it onto the recipients certificate and notifying the police..

[dromia]

Just out of interest why do you think that you shouldn't pay the RFD a fee for handling the firearm for you and providing that service?

[Blackstuff]

I agree a fee should be paid, just not what some RFD's charge (£30-35 seems to have become the standard, with one, thankfully, notible exception).

There's no way the work takes an hour and even if it did there's no one employed in any of the gun shops i know that's being paid £30-35 per hour.

[dromia]

Some ones I have done have taken well over an hour.

Firstly communications can be tortuous getting the senders information for the transfer, liaising with the seller and buyer etc, can be very time consuming.

Secondly I now photograph all unpacking of a received gun on someone's behalf after receiving a damaged gun for transfer and getting caught up in a blame chase for the damage that took weeks for me to get out of.

Thirdly there is then the dealing with the effect of when something goes wrong with the courier, I had one recently when TNT "lost" a ML pistol, being sent to a me for a customer, for three weeks, it was also compounded by the senders RFD using a third party RFD to book the courier. WTF!

Simple as it may seem on the surface things rarely go smoothly and for every one that goes as it should there will be another one that won't and the costs for that are nowhere near covered.

Even at £30-£35 for transfer over the year there is probably little or no money in it for the RFD, I also suspect that many charge that amount because they don't want the grief that can come form handling a firearm that you have no profit in and the high cost is to dissuade people from using them for transfers.

[Blackstuff]

I understand there can be exceptional cases which do involve a substantial amount of work, however efficient electronic admin systems can make it a virtual 10min job for the major of normal transactions. 2 RFD's have shown me the whole process from start to finish, one charges £10, the other charges £35 and the one that charges £35 had the better system!

A £30-35 RFD fee + £20-40 courier fee (and then the RFD fee to the buyer on the other end) can make selling licensable parts/accessories and cheap guns utterly worthless.

[dromia]

I think that you will find that the "exceptional" cases are more frequent than you think.

I suspect that what you have been shown is the booking and booking out part of the process which is the easiest part as that is totally within your control.

A virtual system is no more capable of handling the calls, emails, visits, hassle that are attendant to such transactions as my paper system, that is where the time comes in.

Obviously it all adds to the cost but it is a market place after all and the costs have to be factored in to anyone making a purchase.

Just think how much cheaper things would be if the VAT element were removed from the system, cost are costs so don't just blame RFD's for the price of things. At the end of the day you are arguing over a £15 difference in a transaction that will likely be at least a couple of hundred pounds in value and as it is so important to you then you will obviously use the dealer that charges you £10 rather than the £35 dealer. That way you and the dealers will all be happy.

Such are the benefits of a "free" marketplace.