Could cast boolits solve the problem?

[Dougan]

Thanks again gentlemen for your assistance...

Alpha - Yes a 'black art' indeed...my initial reading made my head hurt a little (as you say, a little Whisky helps ), but most of it is making sense now, and I need to re-read it again...

...I think your're right, and that I need to hold off on 'M' dies and/or spuds until I know for sure which boolits to use.

Adam - As you say, I need to try a few boolits for fit, and I'm also going to get some better materials and slug the bore again, as I wasn't 100% happy with my first attempt.

It'll take a week or so to get organised...so I'll get back to you guys when I've got some better measurements and info...

:cheers:

John

[dromia]

You'd be as well taking an impact cast whilst you are at it.

Takes all the guess work out of it.

Maximum, a five minute job.

[dromia]

"Black Art"?

Not really, but one that you do need to engage in and have knowledge of your firearm.

For me that is part of attraction for cast boolits, I understand and appreciate my guns far more after getting them to shoot cast.

Generally however it isn't an off the shelf process like loading condoms bullets can be, it is bespoke and decisions have to be made. To do that you require data about your rifle and data about the bullet you want to use as well as clarity about what you to achieve and at what distances.

So you see there is a plain logic to the process.

Cast boolit shooting is extremely rewarding as the more you put into it the more you will get out of it both in satisfaction of endeavour and in results on the target.

[Dougan]

I do find the logic and decision making process about this interesting - There was quite a lot of talk on the forum a while back about F-Class reloading, and although not my discipline I found the discussions gave me a better understanding of my own, quite basic, reloading...

...and it's the same with this - Just googling terminologies like 'freebore' brought up some very informative diagrams...and while I doubt I'll ever get round to making my own boolits, next time I'm feeling flush I'm going to pick up a copy of the Lyman Cast Manual just to read it out of interest.

[Dougan]

I got some samples (cheers Rog ) and have been having a play around this afternoon.

I couldn't get hold of any appropriate lead balls to slug the bore again, but the .315 boolits seemed to fit well...the rear part fitted the freebore nicely - I also tapped one up the muzzle...the front end was nice and snug on the rifling, and needed pliers to pull back out...but there was no way the rear end would go in without deforming it; making me wonder if they may be a bit tight (?)

I then made some dummies to try:

I used my OAL gauge and some drilled .303 cases (a' la SHED) to find where the boolits touch the lands - The one on the left is touching and measures 3.154" OAL - The one on the right is seated to 2.930", which is what the Lyman manual states for this boolit.

So, more questions: From what I've read and been told; the best accuracy is achieved by seating them so they are just touching the rifling...as you can see, to do this I would have one of the lube rings fully out of the case...is this OK?...And why does the manual suggest such a deep seating length that would result in a big jump (over 200 thou in my case)?

The ones seated to touch are too big for the magazine, but the middle one in the picture keeps the lube in the case, has some of the rear of the boolit resting in the freebore, and feeds well...but still with a big jump; which defeats the purpose of the bespoke fit (?)

The seating and neck tension wasn't as much of a problem as I thought it would be - despite my neck die giving an inside neck measurement of .308, a good 'slope' with my deburing tool allowed the boolits to seat without stripping them - The necks bulged, but not badly (no issues with the fit in the throat), and seemed to hold the boolits OK (couldn't push them in further by hand), and didn't seem too tight; as it only took 2 hits with the inertial hammer to get them out again.

Obviously an 'M die' or such would be better, but I haven't discovered anything that is putting me off trying a few as they are...???

[dromia]

Try the rounds at different seating depths see which shoots best.

Have a lube groove, or more exposed isn't an issue unless you are carry the rounds is such a way that it will pick up grit fluff ands such like.

The manuals will always give a speccy oal to fit the magazine.

I would pull a couple of seated boolits and check their diameter on the seating part. Neck tension with cast boolits isn't just about getting good boolit retention it is also about not having too much so that the boolit gets sized down when being seated. No point in getting that good boolit fit all worked out to undo it when you seat.

Sounds like the boolit is too large to function as designed, bore riding, That may or may not be a problem with having that long nose unsupported in the freebore, this where a chamber/freebore/lead/groove/bore impact cast would help.

Have you tried marking the case neck boolit to note the contact points when chambered.

I'd be inclined to try for a good free bore case mouth fit to ensure that if that long bore riding nose is unsupported then it is at least centred.

[Dougan]

I've pulled the dummies, and yes the seating process has sized the boolits down 1 thou to .314.

Yesterday, I put a bullet on it's own into the rifle - I know it's not very scientific, but when I rotated and moved the rifle around it stayed perfectly in a central position, so I think the boolit is just right for the freebore.

If I leave a lube strip exposed, is it worth cleaning the lube out (with a bit of white spirit) to avoid it picking up any dirt?

I don't suppose you have any 'M' dies for sale? (I'll PM you)

[dromia]

If the rounds are boxed then they will be fine just leave the lube in the grooves.

If you intend carrying them around in your pocket then best to remove the lube.

Regarding "right for freebore" shooting will tell us whether that is right or not, with the long unsupported nose the amount of freebore space will dictate the level of any slump in the bullet nose upon firing.

Good luck at the weekend.

[Dougan]

'Slump'...makes sense...I hadn't really given 'gravity' much thought at that point of a bullets travel...

I've got my hands on an M die, so will try some different seating depths this weekend.

[Dougan]

Well the testing went well

The M die worked well; though I found it a bit tricky getting the height of the spud just right - Once set it allowed the boolits to seat nicely, and actually gave a better (slightly stronger) neck tension than the .308 diameter of the regular .303 expander-ball...and didn't size down the boolits either (I pulled a couple to check).

I didn't have much time for testing (was a club comp day) so I made 20 rounds with 20 gns of Viht N120 - 10 with a seating depth of 3.130" (25 thou back from the lands, to be safe on my first tests...), and 10 with 3.040" (as a possible magazine round) - As 300 was the shortest distance I was going to get to shoot them, I checked them at the zero range...both shot low, but with a nice 1" group, and the shorter ones fed well from the magazine without a hint of sticking or snagging...after 10 shots, I was already happy.

The sights on my SMLE are actually at 300 for 300 with my previous jacketed loads; so from where they shot on the zero range I set them for 600 - I tried the long ones first, and was well pleased to see the target go down...it was still a bit low, and had to put the sights up a bit more; but the last 3 were all in the 4 (TR target) - despite their reasonable accuracy, I think they were going sub-sonic, as I could hear them hitting the target - The deeper ones shot better; with the seating depth clearly giving them a higher velocity...and again held the 4 ring at 300; which I was well happy with for a first outing.

I'm now convinced enough to 'go cast' with the SMLE - so I'm looking at booking a range with a chrono, and doing some proper testing...the longer (possible 'accuracy' rounds) definitely need more powder for even 200 yards, and I want to see what the deeper seated ones are doing before I work them up.

You may have a convert razz - Seriously though, it seems to make perfect sense with old military rifles, for various reasons, so I'm going to try some in the Mauser too tongueout