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DavidRees wrote:

Dougan wrote: For Gallery (10 - 50m) I use a .357 case, 4.1 gn of Vhit N320*, and one of Rog's 158 gn soft alloy RNFPs...the rounds load and shoot very nicely...

Tried the 4.1gr N320 load today in .357 cases, with Fed 100 primers, pushing a GM 158gr lead truncated cone bullet, through my 18.5" (or is it 16.5"?) microgroove Marlin.

One shot (low) called out during sequence, 2nd flyer might well be me too -- was in a hurry.

Ft-lbs: 304, F.P.S.: 931. An accurate load, indeed. Thank you, Dougan.

You're welcome.

Don't forget it's not quite the same load, as it's a different bullet; but the velocity is probably similar...and it's quite a bit more than I thought it was...

... for the chrono info

Dougan wrote:

dromia wrote:Thought that you had stopped doing pistol calibre boolits?

He's not allowed to stop doing .38s.....I'll chain him to the smelter if I have to razz

Your supply is safe - don't worry. I just got another load of range lead to keep you going. :goodjob:
I'm at Bisley on 26 and 27th July if you are there. I can bring some down.

DavidRees wrote:

Tony-c wrote:158gr TC GM hardcast bullet, 4.4 grains of Vit310, COL 1.595

in my marlin that does CTC 1" groups rested at 50 with ease

Tried this load today. One flyer, almost certainly me. The rest are in a superb group:

Ft-lbs: 396, F.P.S.: 1062. Very accurate. Thanks to Tony for sharing his data.

Not superb - only just acceptable - my revolver shot 1/2" groups at 50 yards in the old days - cast wadcutters too, I still have the Hensley and Gibbs mould.

dodgyrog wrote: Not superb - only just acceptable - my revolver shot 1/2" groups at 50 yards in the old days - cast wadcutters too, I still have the Hensley and Gibbs mould.

Preumably that was with a Ransom Rest, not handheld? Would you care to share the load data with us? Have you by any chance tried it through an LBR? Would be very helpful to know how it works in one of those.

The group I reported above was shot with me sitting on a stool, balancing the Marlin on my elbows above a slightly wobbly surface, with a scope at 10x, and with a pretty fouled barrel (700+ rounds through it). I was also in a rush to clear the range for other users, and therefore the results were not as good as would be possible if the rifle were held in a more stable situation shot to shot. The flyers demonstrate that, I think. Within those constraints, the load demonstrated reasonably good accuracy, and I may well experiment further with it in the future. In the meantime, people browsing this thread have some information (powder, bullet, charge, fps, ft-lbs, and indicative accuracy potential) so they can consider whether this combination might work for them.

dodgyrog wrote:

Dougan wrote:

dromia wrote:Thought that you had stopped doing pistol calibre boolits?

He's not allowed to stop doing .38s.....I'll chain him to the smelter if I have to razz

Your supply is safe - don't worry. I just got another load of range lead to keep you going. :goodjob:
I'm at Bisley on 26 and 27th July if you are there. I can bring some down.

Cheers Rog - I'm at Bisley on the 27th, but I'm waiting on others to try the samples I've given them...I want to put a single order together, so if I can't by then we'll just have to swallow the postage costs...

DavidRees wrote:

dodgyrog wrote: Not superb - only just acceptable - my revolver shot 1/2" groups at 50 yards in the old days - cast wadcutters too, I still have the Hensley and Gibbs mould.

Preumably that was with a Ransom Rest, not handheld? Would you care to share the load data with us? Have you by any chance tried it through an LBR? Would be very helpful to know how it works in one of those.

The group I reported above was shot with me sitting on a stool, balancing the Marlin on my elbows above a slightly wobbly surface, with a scope at 10x, and with a pretty fouled barrel (700+ rounds through it). I was also in a rush to clear the range for other users, and therefore the results were not as good as would be possible if the rifle were held in a more stable situation shot to shot. The flyers demonstrate that, I think. Within those constraints, the load demonstrated reasonably good accuracy, and I may well experiment further with it in the future. In the meantime, people browsing this thread have some information (powder, bullet, charge, fps, ft-lbs, and indicative accuracy potential) so they can consider whether this combination might work for them.

If you're just balancing on your elbows, then it's not easy to get consistency (though your results are still good) - I've found lever rifles quite difficult to zero 100% accurately...if you use a hard rest they bounce, and I've ended up having to lug my large sand-filled zero bag to the range...and even then shoulder position and triggering effect the consistency of the shot...

...as you say though, these experiments and tests give a good indication of the load's potential.

Dougan wrote:If you're just balancing on your elbows, then it's not easy to get consistency (though your results are still good) - I've found lever rifles quite difficult to zero 100% accurately...if you use a hard rest they bounce, and I've ended up having to lug my large sand-filled zero bag to the range...and even then shoulder position and triggering effect the consistency of the shot...

I would really like to find something equivalent to a Ransom Rest for underlever rifles, even just a 1894. Sadly, I'm neither an engineer or mechanic, so I'll never be able to put something together, but it is frustrating when attempting to test ammunition, to realise that the limiting factor is my ability to keep it steady!

The 1500 competition included a shoot (with revolver) at 50 yards sitting kneeling left handed and right handed with a vertical post (4" square) to lean on. If you couldn't get all 24 shots in the 10 ring and a high proportion in the X ring you were no good - 1 1/2" groups were the rule for those who shot it regularly.
Shot off a wrist/hand support I could do 1" groups all the time with a mixture of rounds. I once had the range to myself (outdoors in a quarry range) and tried a mixture of ammo. This included defective wadcutters (cast oversize ans forced through the sizer die and nearly smeared off all the lube groove), good wadcutters (2.8gr Viht 310, Federal primers) CCI factory wadcutter, 158gr semi wadcutter (Keith style). The rest was a fallen log that I lent my hands on. They ALL shot to the same point of aim inside a 1" group.
Barrel was a Shilen 6" and sights were a Wichita 4 position rib. Trigger job by me.
I also had a Colt National Match (pre-dating the Gold Cup) that would also shoot the 200gr #68 Hensley and Gibbs boolit nearly as well.
Not bullshitting just telling as it was.
Funny enough I shoot much worse with my Marlin! Due to me not the ammo.

dodgyrog wrote:good wadcutters (2.8gr Viht 310, Federal primers) CCI factory wadcutter

This is most helpful, thank you. Hope to get an LBR sometime this year, and have a few 148gr wadcutters from the old days hanging around, together with a little Viht N310, so I'll give that recipe a try. In the old pistol days, I used Howitzer Zero in my revolvers, which is now no longer available, so some guidance for modern powders is most welcome.

DavidRees wrote:

dodgyrog wrote:good wadcutters (2.8gr Viht 310, Federal primers) CCI factory wadcutter

This is most helpful, thank you. Hope to get an LBR sometime this year, and have a few 148gr wadcutters from the old days hanging around, together with a little Viht N310, so I'll give that recipe a try. In the old pistol days, I used Howitzer Zero in my revolvers, which is now no longer available, so some guidance for modern powders is most welcome.

Zero is still available, apparently. I am using the last of mine - about 1 kg left from 20kg I bought way back when.
There is (according to a local acquaintance) somebody manufacturing shotgun ammo in my locality ie near Consett. He is using Zero powder and might sell it. Don't ask name and addresses 'coz I don't know.
Incidentally I am using 3.2 gr of Zero behind a soft cast 150gr boolit in the Marlin I shoot.