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Even Airsoft toys, some of which can run well in excess of 1.something ft/lbs (around 1.75 Joules I think it is), are assessed (by the Police) to be [probably] capable of producing a lethal injury.

If I apply for a SGC and FAC then whatever agency is responsible carry out proper and riguorous background checks using those systems currently available to such agencies. No BS about interviews with relatives, etc just Facts!

If at the end of that process I am deemed sane, sound and of good chararcter I should be granted SGC and FAC. Once the grant is made then Police that grant in a proper, fair and objective manner but on a regular basis. What I then choose to hold in my Firearms inventory is my business, not the State's, that gets you around the devisive need to classify any Firearm.

You will never legislate against human nature, you can minimise its impact without draconian laws.
The PERSON shoots the Gun, monitor the person.

I have said before the Media are a necessary evil in holding Governments to account but that does not give them any freedom to mis-report or be anything less than ethical or fair in their reporting.

Sendit wrote:If I apply for a SGC and FAC then whatever agency is responsible carry out proper and riguorous background checks using those systems currently available to such agencies. No BS about interviews with relatives, etc just Facts!
If at the end of that process I am deemed sane, sound and of good chararcter I should be granted SGC and FAC. Once the grant is made then Police that grant in a proper, fair and objective manner but on a regular basis. What I then choose to hold in my Firearms inventory is my business, not the State's, that gets you around the devisive need to classify any Firearm.
You will never legislate against human nature, you can minimise its impact without draconian laws. The PERSON shoots the Gun, monitor the person.
I have said before the Media are a necessary evil in holding Governments to account but that does not give them any freedom to mis-report or be anything less than ethical or fair in their reporting.

Senfit - you have a major problem with your proposal .... Its Fair and Objective

Hence politicians wont want it because they cant manipulate it
"the Agencies" cant pad the headcount with roles for cronies and friends!

Besides the ability to implement any proposal in the UK is b****** by EU, politicians, bureaucrats, health and safety, incompetence and indifference and whatever else!

So that by the time the "process" is implemented it bears no resemblance to what was intended!

Sim G wrote:Leigh, I commented on what you outlined in "your" system. That's it, "ALL lethal, barrelled weapons be placed under a single category - Firearms." That would include air weapons. I've illustrated why on different levels, your idea is flawed.

On different levels? Where was that then? You mentioned that it would be more difficult to shoot your air pistol in your garden and I pointed out that it wouldn't. Either it's on an FAC now, or it's not as it's not defined as powerful enough to be lethal. Where's the flaw?

SevenSixTwo wrote:Even Airsoft toys, some of which can run well in excess of 1.something ft/lbs (around 1.75 Joules I think it is), are assessed (by the Police) to be [probably] capable of producing a lethal injury.

But they're not legally defined as being lethal, if they were, they'd be required to be on FAC now.

LeighC wrote:On different levels? Where was that then? You mentioned that it would be more difficult to shoot your air pistol in your garden and I pointed out that it wouldn't. Either it's on an FAC now, or it's not as it's not defined as powerful enough to be lethal. Where's the flaw?

I'm ggoing to try and explain myself one more time. If misunderstood or whatever, I'll not say anymore on the discussion of a hypothetical solution that I became involved with for nothing more than the enjoyment of debate...

You stated your system would involve "ALL lethal, barrelled weapons be placed under a single category - Firearms."

The fact is, the law states, “Firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged." This definition includes all air weapons. It's purely due to the arrangements under the Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969 and the virtues of S53 of the Firearms Act 1968, that air weapons below 12 and 6 ft/lbs respectively, are exempt from Fiream Certificates.

Non the less, an air weapon per se, does fall within the definition of a lethal barrelled weapon. That is the law. As dictated by legislation, Blackstones, Archibald, Police National Legal Database and the Home Office Guidance on Firearms Law 2002. On top of which, case law also exists that decreed an airgun as a lethal barrelled weapon, Moore v Gooderham [1960].

So, as said, "your" requirement for "ALL lethal, barrelled weapons be placed under a single category - Firearms." needing to be granted an FAC and all that went with your system, air weapons which are currently unrestricetd, would need an FAC.

As for showing on "different levels" the flaws, firstly, you would encapsulate guns that didn't need to be included, but would fall due to your requirement. And, the amount of people that would then be involved to grant me the permission to to what I do now, with all the risks and pitfalls, I and thousands like me would be put upon terribly because of one aspect of our sport.

Just to plink in the back garden with a sub 6ft/lb air pistol would become utterly prohibitive with "your" system.

See where I'm coming from?

However, when all said and done, everything I've said would become moot if you changed the requirement of your system..... :55:

But Sim, that is what Scotland is about to have...

Fair one Sim, for simplicity I should have said ALL lethal etc with the exception of low powered air guns, airsoft etc.

I misunderstood the regs and I thought that low powered air guns were outwith the Firearms act, whereas I now understand they are included, but have an exemption.

As you say, it's fun for the sake of debate, if I ever find myself in the position of being Home Sec, I'll be a little more thorough!

Why, none of the previous incumbents have been...

Yeah, the bar's not particularly high is it!