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Re: Hornady Amax
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:49 am
by Sim G
kennyc wrote:contrary to some peoples statements, this is lifted from Hornadys site
A-MAX® NOW featuring AMP™ bullet jackets!
Designed by match shooters for match shooters. With an ultra-low drag tip, our A-Max match bullets feature an aerodynamic secant ogive that delivers flat trajectories with excellent uniformity and concentricity. Find out more...
Rapid, explosive expansion with limited penetration.
[b]Recommended muzzle velocity range: 2000+ fps.[/b]
These bullets are not recommended for hunting medium and large game.
I found the above on the Hornady site a while ago and posted same in the other A-max thread. I couldn't find it last night. I can't seem to find it again. Can you link the page for me?
Re: Hornady Amax
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:46 am
by Mike357
Link to meeting minutes
http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/Onl ... 110309.pdf
Note the BASC were not present.
A long discussion ensured concerning the construction of
bullets.
Mike Squire raised the problem of the classification of
expanding ammunition and its use on ranges and for
wildlife management. He was aware from conversations
with customers that many did not understand how to
differentiate between certain types of bullet. He asked
when the current restrictions on the possession and use
of expanding ammunition would be amended, as hinted at
in previous meetings. He pointed out that some American
manufactured ammunition with ballistic tips were designed
to be dual purpose, for use both as target ammunition and
for wildlife management. Bullets that were described as
target or expanding rounds in their literature externally
appeared identical. He had sectioned a range of ballistic
tipped bullets, described by the manufacturer as target or
expanding, and compared them with bullets described as
dual purpose. He could detect no difference in
construction. Barry Collacott said he believed that until the
law was changed, bullets should continue to be treated as
either target or expanding for wildlife management, not
dual purpose. Mike Squire questioned how this would be
checked and enforced by the authorities when the loaded
bullets of each type could not be differentiated when stood
side by side. Barry suggested the legislation was
unenforceable.
What Mike Squire has done is turn a local issue into a national issue affecting everybody.
Re: Hornady Amax
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:59 pm
by Sandgroper
Whinging and bitching and pointing the finger is not going to solve anything :evil: . We are members of various shooting organisations - this is the sort of thing we pay our membership for. Jumping up and down and fighting amongst ourselves will not solve this issue - making sure the NRA, BASC, SA or whoever does something to head this off, will.
I knew about the AMAX anomaly several year ago as did many of you, but kept quite about it. From what I posted when this was last mentioned, BASC knew about this in 2004 and considered the AMAX to be expanding
. However, it seems nothing was said to the Home Office until now.
Rob, if you know anything more about the BASC position, it would be appreciated if you could pass it on.
To me, it seems Mr Squires was,
with the best intentions, pre-empting a change in the law for expanding ammunition as per the HAC report into firearms. However, as we all know the
"road to hell is paved with good intentions" and he should have kept his mouth shut. He certainly should not have mentioned the ammunition he sectioned.
The question is - what are we, as shooters, going to do about this?
Re: Hornady Amax
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:41 pm
by Robin128
All I know is that any bullet will expand on impact with a hard object, but that's not the question in law - which is, "Is it designed to expand on impact?"
Target shooters must not use bullets designed to expand on impact - that is illegal, and therefore you can't have a condition on a certificate to allow you to use it for target shooting.
I've Emailed Mike and if there is more recent knowledge...I'll post it here as before.
:)
Re: Hornady Amax
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:44 pm
by Sandgroper
Cheers
I'll see what BASC up here are saying about it as well.
Re: Hornady Amax
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:51 pm
by kennyc
Sim G wrote:kennyc wrote:contrary to some peoples statements, this is lifted from Hornadys site
A-MAX® NOW featuring AMP™ bullet jackets!
Designed by match shooters for match shooters. With an ultra-low drag tip, our A-Max match bullets feature an aerodynamic secant ogive that delivers flat trajectories with excellent uniformity and concentricity. Find out more...
Rapid, explosive expansion with limited penetration.
[b]Recommended muzzle velocity range: 2000+ fps.[/b]
These bullets are not recommended for hunting medium and large game.
I found the above on the Hornady site a while ago and posted same in the other A-max thread. I couldn't find it last night. I can't seem to find it again. Can you link the page for me?
spooky! when I went back the text has changed? is it possible I followed a link to an older web page?
Re: Hornady Amax
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:02 pm
by ovenpaa
They could have updated the page rather quickly as well, Hornady should be aware of this issue via the UK importers by now and may well have updated the site accordingly.
Re: Hornady Amax
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:07 pm
by Sandgroper
No, it's still there
http://www.hornady.com/bullets top of the page Product lines A-Max bullets.
A-MAX® NOW featuring AMP™ bullet jackets!
Designed by match shooters for match shooters. With an ultra-low drag tip, our A-Max match bullets feature an aerodynamic secant ogive that delivers flat trajectories with excellent uniformity and concentricity. Find out more...
Rapid, explosive expansion with limited penetration.
Recommended muzzle velocity range: 2000+ fps.
These bullets are not recommended for hunting medium and large game.
Re: Hornady Amax
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:00 pm
by Laurie
As of today, the Home Office has reclassified the AMAX design as 'expanding' across the board making it an offence to sell, own, or use any such or ammunition loaded with such unless the shooter's FAC authorises purchase / holding / use of expanding bullets and ammunition. RFDs and rifle clubs are being advised of the change of status. No compensation will be paid to anybody affected.
The importer is likely to make a legal challenge against the decision, but even if that is done, considerable time will likely pass before a legal ruling and clarification are obtained.
Further comment is pretty superfluous!
Re: Hornady Amax
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:10 pm
by Sandgroper
Laurie wrote:As of today, the Home Office has reclassified the AMAX design as 'expanding' across the board making it an offence to sell, own, or use any such or ammunition loaded with such unless the shooter's FAC authorises purchase / holding / use of expanding bullets and ammunition. RFDs and rifle clubs are being advised of the change of status. No compensation will be paid to anybody affected.
The importer is likely to make a legal challenge against the decision, but even if that is done, considerable time will likely pass before a legal ruling and clarification are obtained.
Further comment is pretty superfluous!
All very well, but I have just checked the Home Office web site and cannot find any reference to this at all.
You would think/hope that the Home Office would make some sort official statement on the website, otherwise how are we to know?