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Re: NRA General Council Elections - Vote for me please
Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 11:24 pm
by Alpha1
mag41uk wrote:Easy solution. Build a range oop north and start a new governing body.
Cant be that difficult.
The NRA has been around for a long time they could off opened a similar facility up North a lifetime ago and increased the membership and income. But they chose not to and have ignored every plea for help in the regions ever since.
I have done more to promote shooting in the North East of England in my small way than they have ever done. I grab every full bore range I can and make sure the two clubs I belong to get as much full bore shooting as possible on MOD ranges. I organize probationary training. Safe shooters certification training for two full bore Clubs. I have never been to Bisley in my life and I have no intention of ever visiting the place. You could all ways vote for me. Except I am not interested and I don't have the time. One of the Clubs I belong to that has put a massive effort into shooting in the North East has as a result of its efforts now have a membership of over 250 members and is actively looking for a suitable venue to develop an outdoor full bore range equivalent to any of the MOD ranges without any help from the NRA.
Hopefully, we will be able to make it happen and the NRA can take a hike.
Re: NRA General Council Elections - Vote for me please
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 9:19 am
by MistAgain
"The Council of the National Rifle Association must always have before them the need to be responsive to change"
Sir Ronald Melville. Former Chairman of the NRA .
Re: NRA General Council Elections - Vote for me please
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:20 am
by Lancs Lad
Alpha1 wrote:mag41uk wrote:Easy solution. Build a range oop north and start a new governing body.
Cant be that difficult.
The NRA has been around for a long time they could off opened a similar facility up North a lifetime ago and increased the membership and income. But they chose not to and have ignored every plea for help in the regions ever since.
I have done more to promote shooting in the North East of England in my small way than they have ever done. I grab every full bore range I can and make sure the two clubs I belong to get as much full bore shooting as possible on MOD ranges. I organize probationary training. Safe shooters certification training for two full bore Clubs. I have never been to Bisley in my life and I have no intention of ever visiting the place. You could all ways vote for me. Except I am not interested and I don't have the time. One of the Clubs I belong to that has put a massive effort into shooting in the North East has as a result of its efforts now have a membership of over 250 members and is actively looking for a suitable venue to develop an outdoor full bore range equivalent to any of the MOD ranges without any help from the NRA.
Hopefully, we will be able to make it happen and the NRA can take a hike.
More power to your elbow Alpha
![flag13 :flag13:](./images/smilies/smiley-flag013.gif)
LL
Re: NRA General Council Elections - Vote for me please
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:06 pm
by Sfwh
daman wrote:
I'd love to understand why we seem to have had such different experiences there.
I am glad that your experience has been positive as mine has been wholly negative. If I had to guess why our experiences have been different I would say that many people I know believe the NRA simply hates young people. As a shooter in his 20's helping to run a club which mostly has a membership under 25 I believe that to be true. Multiple older shooters from clubs my club interacts with have reported rudeness and a complete lack of professionalism towards young shooters from staff who are usually friendly and helpful. I will give a few examples of this behaviour:
I walked into the range office and asked to use the zero range. I was told "no as you don't have an SSC" I then handed over my SSC and RCO cards. I was then told "no as your affiliated club doesn't have a range booking today" I then pointed out my clubs range booking. He then asked what target I wanted, I said there was no need as the NRA don't have one for the calibre I'm shooting (the only zero targets are for .303 and .308). He responded, "rather than being a smart arse why don't you tell me what calibre you're shooting and then I'll tell you if we have the target or not". Shockingly they don't have a target for 11.15x60mmR and I said I only needed the zero range to chronograph some new hand loads as the rules ask us to do. He told me "you can't use a chronograph on the zero range as....it's full". A quick glance at the CCTV in the range office showed that to be a lie and I know it remained empty for the rest of the day anyway.
We are regularly watched by range officers when we go to the point (I have since learnt this happens to most young shooters). On one occasion we were watched for a while at butt zero before being told our steel shotgun targets were inappropriate as shot hitting the targets might bounce down and mess up the dirt. On another occasion, they watched us for a while and then said the standing alert position was not an approved NRA stance as you could shoot the dirt which is a ricochet hazard. Quote from the Bisley Bible "Standing Alert/Patrol Position. As for Standing position but with the firearm held pointing downwards at an angle of 45 [degrees]". On a third occasion, a range officer watched us from his buggy for about 45 minutes (it was raining and we were the only people there so he was definitely watching us). 3 male shooters (all RSO/RCO's) shot standing and then a young female shooter (also an RSO) went to shoot the same rifle from the same position and the range officer yelled "she can't do that". We made the firearm safe and asked why we couldn't keep shooting, he then leapt from his vehicle and yelled "BECAUSE I'M THE SENIOR F****** RANGE OFFICER AND YOU STOP WHEN I TELL YOU TO STOP". We had stopped so we again asked why we weren't allowed to keep shooting and after ignoring us for a few moments the buzzer that ends shooting for the day went off and he said "that's why you can't shoot".
Perhaps the most ridiculous example of range office behaviour is when a member of my club rented a rifle which couldn't be used due to a range closure so a different member asked for a refund. The NRA couldn't find our range booking as we were shooting with another established club and so blamed the rifle renter for their mistake. They then proceeded to put the person who asked for the refund and not the rifle renter under disciplinary investigation.
The NRA in my experience is at best inefficient and at worst, and more often, a group of bullies hiding behind their status. If they don't like someone they'll watch them for mistakes to jump on and if they don't make any they'll make something up.
If it seems like my experience is anomalous then you should look at websites like save bisley.com/about-us/ which suggest my experience is all too common.
P.S. I love practical shotgun, mini-rifle and pistol but thankfully I have other clubs I can rely on to fill those needs. I wish I didn't have to use the NRA for anything but unfortunately, they have a monopoly of full-bore shooting in the UK.
Re: NRA General Council Elections - Vote for me please
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:21 pm
by Airbrush
Sfwh wrote:daman wrote:
I'd love to understand why we seem to have had such different experiences there.
I am glad that your experience has been positive as mine has been wholly negative. If I had to guess why our experiences have been different I would say that many people I know believe the NRA simply hates young people. As a shooter in his 20's helping to run a club which mostly has a membership under 25 I believe that to be true. Multiple older shooters from clubs my club interacts with have reported rudeness and a complete lack of professionalism towards young shooters from staff who are usually friendly and helpful. I will give a few examples of this behaviour:
I walked into the range office and asked to use the zero range. I was told "no as you don't have an SSC" I then handed over my SSC and RCO cards. I was then told "no as your affiliated club doesn't have a range booking today" I then pointed out my clubs range booking. He then asked what target I wanted, I said there was no need as the NRA don't have one for the calibre I'm shooting (the only zero targets are for .303 and .308). He responded, "rather than being a smart arse why don't you tell me what calibre you're shooting and then I'll tell you if we have the target or not". Shockingly they don't have a target for 11.15x60mmR and I said I only needed the zero range to chronograph some new hand loads as the rules ask us to do. He told me "you can't use a chronograph on the zero range as....it's full". A quick glance at the CCTV in the range office showed that to be a lie and I know it remained empty for the rest of the day anyway.
We are regularly watched by range officers when we go to the point (I have since learnt this happens to most young shooters). On one occasion we were watched for a while at butt zero before being told our steel shotgun targets were inappropriate as shot hitting the targets might bounce down and mess up the dirt. On another occasion, they watched us for a while and then said the standing alert position was not an approved NRA stance as you could shoot the dirt which is a ricochet hazard. Quote from the Bisley Bible "Standing Alert/Patrol Position. As for Standing position but with the firearm held pointing downwards at an angle of 45 [degrees]". On a third occasion, a range officer watched us from his buggy for about 45 minutes (it was raining and we were the only people there so he was definitely watching us). 3 male shooters (all RSO/RCO's) shot standing and then a young female shooter (also an RSO) went to shoot the same rifle from the same position and the range officer yelled "she can't do that". We made the firearm safe and asked why we couldn't keep shooting, he then leapt from his vehicle and yelled "BECAUSE I'M THE SENIOR F****** RANGE OFFICER AND YOU STOP WHEN I TELL YOU TO STOP". We had stopped so we again asked why we weren't allowed to keep shooting and after ignoring us for a few moments the buzzer that ends shooting for the day went off and he said "that's why you can't shoot".
Perhaps the most ridiculous example of range office behaviour is when a member of my club rented a rifle which couldn't be used due to a range closure so a different member asked for a refund. The NRA couldn't find our range booking as we were shooting with another established club and so blamed the rifle renter for their mistake. They then proceeded to put the person who asked for the refund and not the rifle renter under disciplinary investigation.
The NRA in my experience is at best inefficient and at worst, and more often, a group of bullies hiding behind their status. If they don't like someone they'll watch them for mistakes to jump on and if they don't make any they'll make something up.
If it seems like my experience is anomalous then you should look at websites like save bisley.com/about-us/ which suggest my experience is all too common.
P.S. I love practical shotgun, mini-rifle and pistol but thankfully I have other clubs I can rely on to fill those needs. I wish I didn't have to use the NRA for anything but unfortunately, they have a monopoly of full-bore shooting in the UK.
That's shocking & I believe you, I've been on the wrong side of some dubious NRA calls myself.
Re: NRA General Council Elections - Vote for me please
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:35 pm
by Christel
Not only is it shocking - it also happens far too often. I have been at the receiving end of behaviour like that at Bisley and no matter how I asked I could not get an explanation.
I think the place is lovely, full of history and memories. I will never go back.
Re: NRA General Council Elections - Vote for me please
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:36 pm
by Ovenpaa
A very warm welcome to the forum Sfwh :)
Re: NRA General Council Elections - Vote for me please
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 5:33 pm
by Pete
Like I've said elsewhere, there are some members of staff who definitely have an attitude problem.
But I've found them mostly agreeable.
There are one or two who throw their weight around, probably ex-services, but hey, at the end of the day, we're paying their wages.
Maybe a gentle reminder of this might be in order.
I'm also a member of the RHS, and their mission statement as a charity is "to get more people into gardening".
Perhaps the NRA needs a mission statement..........
Pete
Re: NRA General Council Elections - Vote for me please
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 9:23 pm
by daman
@Sfwh That is indeed shocking.
I had no idea (probably as I'm an old git) that young people were treated with such suspicion and malevolence.
I'm very sorry to hear it and would hope to think that the vast majority of the membership would be equally appalled at the behaviour you've described. We need more young people getting involved to keep the sport alive and if the NRA doesn't see that they are certainly setting themselves up for certain failure.
-daman
Re: NRA General Council Elections - Vote for me please
Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 9:54 pm
by Sfwh
Daman
Well the good news is that as far as I can tell the next generation are every bit as interested in shooting as the previous one. We regularly fill up events and have a constant stream of people making FAC applications. It's also nice to see lots of interest in the practical disciplines you seem to like even though we regrettably have to go abroad for pistol shooting. I really hope people like Phil can start turning the NRA around as I know so many people who are interested in shooting but not enough to suffer the NRA so they leave the sport. I worry one day there will be no one left in the shooting sport.
@Pete - Certainly quite a few of my examples were from only a few staff members and the relevant complaints have been made. Hopefully this time they are responded to.
@Ovenpaa - very nice to be here thank you