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If one were to invest some money with a reputable dealer with a view to him stocking large quantities of a certain calibre or calibres that is not buying ammunition , it is investing money.

I invest in scrap lead when the price is favourable.
Even if you don't sell boolits as I do it is worthwhile hoarding lead for your own use unless, of course, you don't reload (if not, why nor?)

waterford103 wrote:If one were to invest some money with a reputable dealer with a view to him stocking large quantities of a certain calibre or calibres that is not buying ammunition , it is investing money.

And this investment - what would be the return ? Would you declare the investment to HMRC ?

You can use as many alternative words as you want but at the end of the day you are buying more than you are authorised to.

No you are not , if you have not paid it in full ...

Deposit = possession like I've said before. You can't legally put a deposit down on a rifle if you don't have a slot for it.

froggy wrote:No you are not , if you have not paid it in full ...

Really ? So you have confirmed with the authorities what definition of "possession" they use ?

Best thing to do ( as I have done re the .22 barrel / permanently attached moderator ) is ask those who enforce the rules !

The OP is a RFD - as I understand it, the authorities usually are happy to give advice to RFDs who are unsure..........

You can possess without owning or paying - possession is not dependant on either.

And lets say 50 guys all want a load of ammo. They all "invest" and the RFD has a s*** load of ammo stored.

Then the RFD goes bankrupt or loses his RFD - ammo is transferred to another RFD in same way as your firearms would be on revocation of FAC.

The "investors" would have no claim on the ammo as they claimed not to have ever bought it or possessed it.

Thats one pitfall.

Then there is the HMRC who will need to be told of the "investment". If 50 guys suddenly invest in a RFD business - HMRC alarm bells will ring.

That is where the "trust " element lies .
Since neither you nor me actually know for sure, I have started to investigate the legality of it & will revert when I have an answer.

dromia wrote:I wasn't saying the money had to kept for a specific item, just that it would have to be kept. Therefore the RFD would still have to fork out for a bulk buy of ammunition up front and then draw on the buyers account money in dribs and drabs when the buyer had space on the FAC so not really addressing the original idea of people buying in up front for a bulk buy of ammunition.

As I have said all of this is just futile speculation as none of us are in a position to make a call on its legality.

I think your misunderstanding how a typical account works. once the customer has put money into an account, that money is legally belonged to the RFD (shop/company etc) at which point the customer receives credit in return.

Ie if 5 people open accounts with a company and each put in £1,000 the company can straight away go and spend the £5,000 on whatever they want.

Companies use this all the time to make purchase for equipment or bulk buy in goods to then use later.

But you could not specify that the RFD had to provide cheap ammunition for lodging the money in the account. The RFD would just be giving you a credit note for goods in his shop, there is no way to compel him to provide the cheap ammunition, all the RFD has to do is provide goods to the value of the credit, which might not be ammunition which might not be cheap.