Help needed filling in plot sheets

[Dougan]

Hope this is useful.

This is way beyond 'useful' - Thank you very much

There is something else I must do this afternoon - so will come back to this with more time to give this brilliant feedback justice.

I have always though of my shots as creeping up - but havn't thought about it before in terms of the group dropping - it's starting to make sense now. Normally shot 9 wouldn't have bothered me, as it's a 5, and on the card looks to be in the group...but the plot shows that it is actually not in the group...which could be down to the various possibilities that you've suggested.

I have a few more TR shoots in the next month or so, so will continue to develop my plotting skills - I think for the next few shoots the plotting will be done after the shoot - my next one is at 900/1000, so it will be interesting to see where I have to start the windage plot for it to fit.

This advice is also well timed, as I am getting a new TR rifle in the next few weeks - I will set the elevation zero with the advice you have given in mind, so as not to give negative values. It will take a few shoots to get used to the new gun, and set the zero properly - and then I should be able to get more value from the plotting...especially next season.

At the moment a don't like the trigger on my current rifle, so it's difficult to call which shots were 'bad' - I'm hoping this will no longer be a problem with the new rifle (Swing Mk4) - The plotting is going to help me see how the new rifle behaves much quicker than it would have taken before...

After all the detail you've given on the elevation plot, I feel cheeky asking, but - What did you make of the wind plot? Does it show any mistakes or bad practices...as I said, it just looks like random dots, and I'm having trouble gaining answeres from it....?

[TattooedGun]

This is all very interesting stuff :)

after having read the thread and trying to keep up with the info that rox is giving, its hard to see why the groups/dots that she is plotting are placed where they are?

I always assumed that you plot where the bullet landed on those, so you have a simple method of counting the minutes to correct, or estimate the wind... I don't see how number 9 dropped as it did :(

I have my cards from yesturday (Kingsbury) where i was shooting at 3 and 600 yards with my new ammo (previously untested) at home, I'll post pics when I get home...

I did the best I've done so far (68.7@300 and 68.4@600yds) and the bullets were going pretty much where i was expecting to go apart from the wind (oh, and my last shot on 300 I turned the sights the wrong way, so I went from the 3 I dropped out due to wind to a 1... exactly opposite to a dead centre V-Bull... that'll teach me for shooting small-bore!). It'll be interesting to see what others make of it... although i just mark the very basic POI and no elevation or wind at the moment... I spend most of my time trying to get into position and seeing where the shots I took actually went rather than marking and plotting...

[rox]

I always assumed that you plot where the bullet landed on those, so you have a simple method of counting the minutes to correct, or estimate the wind... I don't see how number 9 dropped as it did :(

The plot shows the fall of shot, but corrected for any changes you make to the sights.

For example:
Consider you fired a shot which landed 1 minute above the waterline. You wind the sights down by 1 minute and the next shot lands exactly on the waterline. If you just plotted where the shots landed you would appear to have a group/spread of 1 minute (the shots are 1 minute apart, just like the fall of shot on the diagram). This wouldn't tell you anything. In fact, the group is a perfect flat line, because we have removed (corrected for) the effect of moving the sights. The corrected plot lets us see the 'real' group and, importantly, see where the centre of the group lies and track the centre of the group if it moves.

The process of plotting is simple. Consider a shot that was fired with an elevation of 3 minutes, and which landed 1/2 a minute below the waterline. Identify the gridline on the graph that corresponds to 3 minutes, then draw the blob 1/2 a minute below that.

The wind plot works the same, but you have left and right to deal with, and you can't use the results as directly because there's an extra variable (the wind) which is changing, but it can help to identify brackets and trends. The elevation graph helps you to identify as accurately as possible exactly what elevation you should have on the sights after each shot, in order to have the best chance of the next shot being as close to the waterline as possible (consequently giving you the maximum width to play with to accommodate wind variation).

When I plot wind graphs, I find it makes it slightly easier and quicker to do the following (it is also slightly more informative):
Immediately I’ve fired the shot I record the wind I had on the sights in the table, then place a little cross on the wind plot at that point. When the target comes up I plot the fall of shot on the diagram (as accurately as possible), then if it was 1/2 a minute right of the centre just find the cross and plot the blob 1/2 a minute right of the cross. Having the cross prepared helps plot more quickly, and it also lets me see if I’m over-calling, under-calling, and by how much.

To anyone learning I'd suggest starting by plotting elevation only during the shoot. Once you're used to it you can try doing the wind graph as well, to see if it's something you may find useful. Some feel that the time is better spent watching the wind rather than analysing historic data. You need to get it down to a very fast process before you can truly decide the benefits. There's no need to wait until you shoot to practice. You can print off some scorecards and make it up. Alternatively I have hundreds of team plots scanned, so I may be able to share some after anonymising. You could fold over the graph then plot on a blank scoresheet, then compare with the original. PM me if interested.


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[TattooedGun]

I think I understand, but i fear this may be one of those things that i need to read and re-read with the correct stuff infront of me (not reading whilst I'm at work pretending to be busy )

I guess it would also be easier if you were being shown step by step in person rather than descriptively on the internets :(

[Gun Pimp]

I was on RO duty for the GBFCA round at Diggle last weekend and took it upon myself to see who was plotting - answer? I saw only one shooter actually wind-plotting.

Yes, everyone was indicating the fall of shot on a chart and many were writing down sight changes but with that one exception, I only saw one person converting that into a proper wind-plot. (I did mine this morning - just for fun)

OK, I was also shooting so I didn't see the other eleven shooters on my relay.

No doubt about it, plotting is very benficial - there is no better wind-indicater than your last shot! But, again, plotting may slow down the rate of fire and thus greater wind changes may be experienced by the shooter.

Vince

[Mike357]

Vince, is it a topic covered at the F Class training weekend?

[TattooedGun]

Heres my cards from yesturday, would anyone be able to show me (or rather guide me) how I would do plotting?

300yd


600yd


I'm rather pleased with these results (ofcourse, not counting the 1 where i turned the sights the wrong way... Doh!)... but I still have a lot to learn :(

[rox]

Heres my cards from yesturday, would anyone be able to show me (or rather guide me) how I would do plotting?

There's not much you can do without a record of your sight settings shot by shot, unless you didn't change the sights throughout the shoot.

There was a link to a guide earlier in this thread, IIRC.

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[TattooedGun]

Heres my cards from yesturday, would anyone be able to show me (or rather guide me) how I would do plotting?

There's not much you can do without a record of your sight settings shot by shot, unless you didn't change the sights throughout the shoot.

There was a link to a guide earlier in this thread, IIRC.

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ah Okay,

So from this thread the number one thing would be to make sure the elevation is plotted correctly to maximise possibility of a bull in the wind? (greatest width of the bull left to right on the waterline)...

After getting the elevation then think of wind, moreso than a guess?

I think I need to start writing down what settings I'm using too then >.<

[Gun Pimp]

Mike,

Yes, plotting is covered on the F Class training weekend - and this is possibly the best way to learn it. However, last February, it was a 'classroom' activity where really it needs to be coupled with an 'on range' activity, with one plotter-instructor to each shooter. Only then do you begin to grasp the principle and see the point of plotting.

Vince