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Re: when does a straight pull become a pump action?
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:19 am
by zanes
poll007 wrote:meles meles wrote:
Consider a straight pull action.
The firer grasps the working parts, or a lever attached thereunto, pulls it back to unchamber and eject a spent round, then releases the working parts which move forward independently of the firer, collect and feed a new round into the chamber and cock the action.
Your point is sensible, but consider rifles such as the k31 or ross rifles that are "straight pull" yet require the user to perform both pulling and then pushing back into battery.
+1, though it was Blasers I was thinking of.
Re: when does a straight pull become a pump action?
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:35 am
by Sixshot6
zanes wrote:poll007 wrote:meles meles wrote:
Consider a straight pull action.
The firer grasps the working parts, or a lever attached thereunto, pulls it back to unchamber and eject a spent round, then releases the working parts which move forward independently of the firer, collect and feed a new round into the chamber and cock the action.
Your point is sensible, but consider rifles such as the k31 or ross rifles that are "straight pull" yet require the user to perform both pulling and then pushing back into battery.
+1, though it was Blasers I was thinking of.
Would there be someway to put a spring assist in a K31 to make something akin to badger's idea work?
Re: when does a straight pull become a pump action?
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:09 am
by Sixshot6
Just to add to my previous comment could that be done in a way that doesn't permanently alter a K31 or was I barking up the wrong tree for ideas there?
Re: when does a straight pull become a pump action?
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:54 pm
by poll007
Sixshot6 wrote:Just to add to my previous comment could that be done in a way that doesn't permanently alter a K31 or was I barking up the wrong tree for ideas there?
I thought about it for my bullpup project, and it's possible, as at the moment on my design taking the bolt in and out of the gun requires the butt plate to be removed (it's held on with a little dovetail and some sing pins) so all I'd need to add is putting in an appropriately sized spring before putting he butt back on. (Although it would take some obvious tinkering to get the spring tension just right)
I should add my designs are for a drop in chassis, so no modifications would be necessary. Doing it to a standard stocked k31 could also be done, but with what I imagine would be quite an ugly bolted on "buffer tube"
Re: when does a straight pull become a pump action?
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:57 pm
by meles meles
A bolt action is actually assisted in both directions, but not actually 'pumped'. The K31 is an interesting point, maybe they are tekkernikkerly illegal... We suspect the original drafter of the laws intended to eliminate ye olde traditional underbarrel actuated pump action systems and didn't think too clearly about the consequences.
Par for the course really...
Re: when does a straight pull become a pump action?
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:31 pm
by poll007
meles meles wrote:A bolt action is actually assisted in both directions, but not actually 'pumped'. The K31 is an interesting point, maybe they are tekkernikkerly illegal... We suspect the original drafter of the laws intended to eliminate ye olde traditional underbarrel actuated pump action systems and didn't think too clearly about the consequences.
Par for the course really...
I agree, most of the "technical" parts of the laws are very open to interpretation anyway. I doubt the original drafters of the semi auto ban thought wed develop things like the mars action or lever release systems.
Re: when does a straight pull become a pump action?
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:41 pm
by joe
poll007 wrote:meles meles wrote:A bolt action is actually assisted in both directions, but not actually 'pumped'. The K31 is an interesting point, maybe they are tekkernikkerly illegal... We suspect the original drafter of the laws intended to eliminate ye olde traditional underbarrel actuated pump action systems and didn't think too clearly about the consequences.
Par for the course really...
I agree, most of the "technical" parts of the laws are very open to interpretation anyway. I doubt the original drafters of the semi auto ban thought wed develop things like the mars action or lever release systems.
i think the original drafters wanted to get rid of all black guns ! such as ar-15's ak's etc ! they didnt realise manufactors would design legal ways of bringing them back
Re: when does a straight pull become a pump action?
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:08 pm
by snayperskaya
An AK isn't a "Black Gun" in the sense an AR is Tovarisch....AR far to Imperialist!.
Re: when does a straight pull become a pump action?
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:09 pm
by Sim G
When the legislation was introduced in 1988, the "concept" of the black rifle didn't exist, per se. Most of the semi full bore rifles then we're almost without a doubt, wooden stocked surplus!
The reason full bore pump rifles were also banned, bearing in mind that there were very few of them about, very few indeed, was because the NRA, during the representations being made to the Home Secretary, Douglas Herd, scoffed at Herd when he stated he was banning all semi full bores because of their rate of fire. One of the NRA reps said something along the lines of, " Shows how much you know, pump actions can fire as quick as a semi!" And in a flash, Herd said, "I'm banning those as well"....
Re: when does a straight pull become a pump action?
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:31 pm
by bradaz11
poll007 wrote:
I should add my designs are for a drop in chassis, so no modifications would be necessary. Doing it to a standard stocked k31 could also be done, but with what I imagine would be quite an ugly bolted on "buffer tube"
nah, stick a spring on the cocking lever parallel to the barrel towards the muzzle.
buffer would write off being able to get behind the sights