The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Airbrush wrote:

sysreq wrote:There is also the justification the with 5.56 more ammunition can be carried, unfortunately it seems that you have to use 3 times as much to get the job done.....

One of these days the procurement process will actually get right, just by fluke they have to get right at some point...

I would argue that for the average military shooter it's easier to hit the target first time with a 5.56 than 7.62.

Maybe if we went to something heavier we close use recoil reducing stocks like Fab defense makes or make it clear that no more warning shots are to be fired due to cut backs. In the words of ACDC, shoot to thrill.

This is funny thread.

As I understand it, the SA80 is a good rifle now. It wasn't when it first arrived, but you could say the same about any high performance military equipment, it needs bedding in, proper field testing and refining.

It was a piece of crap from start to finish, probably one of the worst and most expensive service rifle issued to the British army. They have tried to polish a turd but its still a turd.

ordnance wrote:

As I understand it, the SA80 is a good rifle now. It wasn't when it first arrived, but you could say the same about any high performance military equipment, it needs bedding in, proper field testing and refining.

It was a piece of crap from start to finish, probably one of the worst and most expensive service rifle issued to the British army. They have tried to polish a turd but its still a turd.

And surprisingly those that were issued with it, (although not all) liked the last reincarnation of it.

bradaz11 wrote:why didnt germany use the g3 rather than the g36?

or even the g33 etc for 5.56

They actually wanted to use the FN FAL (G1) in the 7.62mm era and bought a considerable number from FN in the late 50s / early 60s. The problem came in that the Germans wanted to manufacture the G1 under license and this caused a political storm in Belgium where memories of German invasion and occupation were still too fresh. When a licensing setup was rejected, the Germans went to CETME in Spain which had taken German engineers and late WW2 Third Reich designs (roller-locking delayed blowback) and worked further on them - result the G3 manufactured in-house by H&K and later to become the FAL's main (virtually only) rival for worldwide 7.62 Nato assault rifle sales.

Back in the 80s some outfit (which if I remember right ended up being convicted under the firearms acts after it was raided for having been mistakenly believed to be operating an IRA arms dump!) in Devizes used to advertise surplus unissued ex Bundeswehr G1s with walnut furniture, leather sling, cleaning kit, and three magazines for £250 in Guns Review magazine. Them were the days!

Strangely Brown wrote:

ordnance wrote:

As I understand it, the SA80 is a good rifle now. It wasn't when it first arrived, but you could say the same about any high performance military equipment, it needs bedding in, proper field testing and refining.

It was a piece of crap from start to finish, probably one of the worst and most expensive service rifle issued to the British army. They have tried to polish a turd but its still a turd.

And surprisingly those that were issued with it, (although not all) liked the last reincarnation of it.

As you say not all! I had a converation with a serving Para on Strensall ranges one day about the A2, and his view was that yes it was better than the original, but only in that it had rectified the basic feed, ejection, and trigger reset faults that no infantry weapon should ever have been issued with in the first place. I'd love to know what the unit per-rifle price has ended up as with the full development and tooling etc costs incuded, the H&K consultancy / redesign etc. I bet you'd get half a dozen M16A2s or a full dozen AK74s and full set of accessories for the same money. Remember, no other country on the planet would buy the L85, not even the Falklands Defence Force.

Pretty sure the JDF bought some. dont know whether they still use it.

On the subject of trigger reset, its still a huge problem. but only because the users dont clean it properly, or more importantly oil the bloody thing.

I see a lot of them, and anytime I hear ' the trigger doesnt work' I strip it down and ask them why its bone dry. 99.9% of the time .

Fault= User inop

Ability to be fired from the left shoulder has to be at top of wish list. Not just for lefties but round cover & if your right side is damaged

[/quote]And surprisingly those that were issued with it, (although not all) liked the last reincarnation of it.[/quote]

When the L85 came along it was a godsend after lugging the dead weight of an SLR around, even better when the a2 came along and it worked as advertised.

John MH wrote:This is funny thread.

I think so too , but funny odd not funny amusing - amazing how so many people who have never shot an L85A1 / A2 have such a strong opinion.

I've got an opinion on driving trucks, although I've never driven one, I wouldn't share those opinions on an internet forum, because A.I have no experience. B.There are people who drive trucks who have more valid experiences to share.