Seems our laws aren't all that bad.

[snayperskaya]

So an AK in this configuration would be legal.

Not entirely sure what that is but it doesn't look like an AK receiver, the receiver almost looks like a slant-back Vepr and a Galil got it on......it sure is ugly though!

[Sandgroper]

Imagine being told in New Zealand you can have that factory standard semi AR15 on a CAT A but that military style pistol grip has to go. That doesn't make sense.

Seems like a small price to pay...alternatively imagine being in Australia where you can't have one at all or the UK where you can only have them as a straight pull or 22 rimfire?

I don't know which State you're going to in Australia, but they are not all equal - some have a much harsher interpretation of Federal Govt firearm requirements than others. Another thing to consider is Australia operates on Special/Genuine Need as well as Good Reason to own for some categories of firearms as well as having to complete and pass a firearms awareness course.

Regarding handguns have a read - http://www.ssaa.org.au/research/2007/20 ... ralia.html

[ordnance]

Was shown a nice Husqvarna copy of the Colt M1903 in .32ACP, for under £75. Seen lots of other pistols there, not as many revolvers.

So, not noticed a lack of ANY guns there, semi auto rifles, semi auto pistols, or the like: and they still have a dedicated target shooting branch that uses their old 9mm SMG - the CG M45 - in full auto mode.

I think its only the military that's allowed full auto firearms is it not. ?

In Sweden, civilians are not allowed to possess automatic firearms, firearms disguised as other objects, and armour-piercing, incendiary and expanding ammunition

[Christel]

This is the chap to blame for the current Neanderthal gun laws in Australia.

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Him and all the other politicians who jumped on the wagon of banning everything after the Port Arthur killings.
I would love to ask him face to face who was behind Port Arthur.

Even though I do not wholly agree with the UK gun laws at least it is better here despite the knee jerk reactions in the past after various gun mass killings.

[Grizzly]

Imagine being told in New Zealand you can have that factory standard semi AR15 on a CAT A but that military style pistol grip has to go. That doesn't make sense.

Seems like a small price to pay...alternatively imagine being in Australia where you can't have one at all or the UK where you can only have them as a straight pull or 22 rimfire?

I don't know which State you're going to in Australia, but they are not all equal - some have a much harsher interpretation of Federal Govt firearm requirements than others. Another thing to consider is Australia operates on Special/Genuine Need as well as Good Reason to own for some categories of firearms as well as having to complete and pass a firearms awareness course.

Regarding handguns have a read - http://www.ssaa.org.au/research/2007/20 ... ralia.html

Thanks for the link. I've already checked out some target and IPSC clubs around Sydney and digested the process. My point regarding the pistol grip was aimed at the law. How does changing a pistol grip make an AR15 any less lethal, change the action or, all of a sudden, make it compliant? Doesn't make sense.

[Sandgroper]

Thanks for the link. I've already checked out some target and IPSC clubs around Sydney and digested the process. My point regarding the pistol grip was aimed at the law. How does changing a pistol grip make an AR15 any less lethal, change the action or, all of a sudden, make it compliant? Doesn't make sense.

If adding a piece of plastic to rifle keeps it in a lower category (NZ law) then more power to Kiwi Shooters - especially as some of the rifles now look quite silly!
Basically, it doesn't have to make sense, it's the law and as long as it conforms to the letter of the law there is no problem IMO - in the same way we have Semi semi automatic (lever release) centre fire rifles here in the UK.
Hell, I could even live that New York compliant AR-15 because it would keep me shooting and it gives a :55: to those idiots who choose to the blame the instrument rather than the individual.

Some interesting stats here http://www.nationmaster.com/country-inf ... land/Crime Australia has more murders with firearms than NZ, but NZ has more firearms per capita... go figure! :lol:

FYI - NSW licensing info http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/services/f ... ne_reasons

[Chuck]

My point regarding the pistol grip was aimed at the law. How does changing a pistol grip make an AR15 any less lethal, change the action or, all of a sudden, make it compliant? Doesn't make sense.

Firearms laws generally do not make sense as they only affect the law abiding as we all know. Banning safety items is what the idiots generally do - so the public can "feel" safer because (in the eyes of the politicians) they are are too dumb to know any better. Remeber most politicians and government experts know nothing about guns apart from what they see on the TV and movies.

[JS569]

I agree that as a whole our laws make sense, the elements that don’t are the restrictions on pistols and semi auto centre fires. If we go to the extent of having a rigorous licensing system which states where and why people can own/ use the firearms then in my mind it doesn’t make a difference in the firearm type or action as all eventualties such as the person and location should be covered off during the licensing proceedure.

For example I can only use my .303 on ranges with my club, that’s fine, but does it make a difference that at that range I have to manually operate the bolt or I just depress a bolt release and squeeze the trigger until the magazine is empty? Of course it doesn’t and in this example I don’t see any reason why someone couldn’t have a fully automatic firearm.

It appears to me that the laws have been made to cover up failings in a system rather than a dangerous item falling into the hands of Joe public, not that other dangerous items haven’t been band, cigs, booze, cars fast food. I could go on…

Needless to say, I’m supportive of my issuing force, they’ve always been very good with me and are probably struggling through the vagaries of the laws in the same way we are and manufacturers (re:bolt release firearms coming to market) are. Having missed pistols and centre fires I can only imagine what they were/ are like unless I go abroad but to me the reasoning behind our lack of self loaders and pistols is ill founded.

[saddler]

Our laws are fine as long as they stay as they are.

Glad YOU think so, I'm personally still unhappy about the loss of most of my guns in the SLR & pistol bans.
BOTH measures (to reduce armed crime) made ZERO difference to ANY armed crime (for the positive)

I'll be honest I don't really care about semi auto on centre fire.
It costs too much and is not great for shot placement as the OP says

How is it not great for "shot placement" as a semi auto?
Which models have you used on a regular basis to make this assumption?

However, I think it would be nice to just press a button on an AR style rifle between shots instead of having to use a side charger.

So, er...an AR side lcharger or bolt release IS ok as a design, but an AR semi-auto version suddenly becomes inaccurate for "shot placement"?
The best "button" I used to press between shots on my AR15A2, was the trigger...no other movement needed, no loss of sight picture, no problems...and GREAT for "shot placement"

bolts are quite relaxing to use as well in my humble opinion

Never shot many mad-minutes have you?

[saddler]

Was shown a nice Husqvarna copy of the Colt M1903 in .32ACP, for under £75. Seen lots of other pistols there, not as many revolvers.

So, not noticed a lack of ANY guns there, semi auto rifles, semi auto pistols, or the like: and they still have a dedicated target shooting branch that uses their old 9mm SMG - the CG M45 - in full auto mode.

I think its only the military that's allowed full auto firearms is it not. ?

In Sweden, civilians are not allowed to possess automatic firearms, firearms disguised as other objects, and armour-piercing, incendiary and expanding ammunition

Yes, IT'S NOT just "the military"

Chatted to a bloke at the last show that had a HK21 in front of him on the stall...one of 4 or 5 trialled by the Swedish Army

What about these blokes then?

...oooh, look at them funny little Anshutz rifles!!