The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Evening peeps,

It's a universal rule that if you try and make things idiot proof then Darwin comes along and invents a better quality idiot Doh….

ttfn
The greek

ordnance wrote:

you see this is my point! safety catches only work if you use them! you only use them if you are trained to use them and follow your training every time! if you can apply a manual safety then you should be able to keep your finger and other bits away from the trigger of a pistol! don't blame the tool, blame the tool using the tool

You are missing my point , will a safety stop nd/s every time no . will it stop some yes. Will people forget to put on the safety yes. will they forget every time no . No safety is perfect. Do you deny that safeties have prevented n/ds. ? Would you be happy walking around a clay shoot with a loaded shotgun and no safety. If you were I can assure you the people around you wouldn't be.

blame the tool using the tool :roll: mistakes happen,

Yes mistakes happen, can you not see that's why they put safety devices on all sorts of things. Not just firearms.

spurious argument you wouldn't walk around a clayshoot with a loaded gun with or without a safety end of! plenty of people have shot themselves in the leg/foot with pistols fitted with a external safety , same goes for rifles and shotguns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX ... ata_player

Not quite the same, but it happens.

DM

spurious argument you wouldn't walk around a clayshoot with a loaded gun with or without a safety end of

I never said they did, this is difficult, I will put it another way if it makes it easer. If you were with a group of people with shotguns out in the field for example . Would you be happy that they were walking around you with a loaded shotgun and no safety catch on. ( If you would be happy that's fine ). I know I would be happier if they had a safety catch on safe until they were ready to shoot.

Its a fact that safety catches on firearms do and have saved lives. If people want to argue that they have no useful purpose, that's up to them.

ordnance wrote:

spurious argument you wouldn't walk around a clayshoot with a loaded gun with or without a safety end of

I never said they did, this is difficult, I will put it another way if it makes it easer. If you were with a group of people with shotguns out in the field for example . Would you be happy that they were walking around you with a loaded shotgun and no safety catch on. ( If you would be happy that's fine ). I know I would be happier if they had a safety catch on safe until they were ready to shoot.

Its a fact that safety catches on firearms do and have saved lives. If people want to argue that they have no useful purpose, that's up to them.

I would not be happy if they were walking in close proximity with loaded shotguns, unless the shotguns were broken, that is how I was taught to carry a shotgun in the field. anyway we are off the point, if Glocks were so dangerous then why are they probably the most popular Law enforcement sidearm in the US? especially given the wide range of choice that they have ?

nickb834 wrote:This might be a really dumbq - why are they holstering the gun made ready - ie one up the spout, why not just mag on and not made ready?

Perhaps different when you're patrolling a warzone, but then I think I'd have the thing made ready and drawn rather than holstered if I was in Afghan.

On the mean streets of the UK, then surely there's a spare second when exiting an armed response vehicle to make ready.

Apologies if I've missed a really obvious point as to why it's so necessary for armed police to have one up the spout in the holster.

Not a dumb question at all - I asked a very similar one last time we got into the subject of making safe and safety catches...

As interesting as these discussions are; it may have nothing to do with procedures, lack of a safety, gun design or holster design...

...the article said that no one else witnessed the incident - so he might of been messing about playing Dirty Harry in private for all we know...

...something he would be unlikely to admit to under the circumstances...

Glocks were so dangerous then why are they probably the most popular Law enforcement sidearm in the US? especially given the wide range of choice that they have ?

Yes and in the US they have fitted heaver triggers in some states , because of the upsurge in N/Ds. The main reason they are so popular is price.

ordnance wrote:

Glocks were so dangerous then why are they probably the most popular Law enforcement sidearm in the US? especially given the wide range of choice that they have ?

Yes and in the US they have fitted heaver triggers in some states , because of the upsurge in N/Ds. The main reason they are so popular is price.

so its better to raise the trigger pull than train the person using it? I suppose accuracy won't be impaired as they weren't trained enough to be accurate in the first place? NYC are the main Police force that comes to mind when you mention heavier triggers, and they increase the pull weight on all of their pistols, not just the Glock. cost is generally a function of volume, Glocks make up 60-70% of US Police sidearms = they can be made and sold cheaper.

"The New York trigger has a heavier trigger pull that was designed for law enforcement use. The name comes from when the New York Police Department transitioned from the double action revolvers its officers had been carrying to the Glock pistol. To make the transition easier for veteran officers, it was requested that Glock design a trigger pull that closely resembled the longer, heavier trigger pull of a double action revolver. This became the New York trigger. The pull weight is usually around 7-8 pounds and has the same even (non-stacking) long pull of a DA revolver. The trigger pull can be further increased to around 10 pounds by replacing the NY trigger spring with a NY Extra trigger spring."

Glocks make up 60-70% of US Police sidearms = they can be made and sold cheaper.

They were always cheap, nothing to do with volume. And that is the main reason they are popular with police and armies. What other reason would there be ? they are no better or worse than a lot of other handguns when it comes to reliability.