A lot of NDs

[Chuck]

:lol: :lol: Safety catches are for those who cannot keep their finger off the trigger which IS a common fault especially in newbies and ergo they are a substitute for poor weapon handling - IMO.

Except of course on single action 1911's !

On sporting firearms I agree they are useful, on personal defence weapons they can get you killed.

Glocks, Walther P99's etc have their safeties in the trigger mechanism. Your trigger finger IS your safety. Proof, why did some police depts. asked for safeties - because their officers were too poorly trained /clumsy to work without one and so committed the common mistake of placing finger on trigger - usually the main reason shots are fired.

[ordnance]

Oh and how many dumbos have had their finger on the trigger when releasing the slide.

Doing that on any handgun that I am aware of and it won't shoot. The trigger would need to be released to reset and pulled again before it would shoot.

Your trigger finger IS your safety. Proof, why did some police depts. asked for safeties - because their officers were too poorly trained /clumsy to work without one and so committed the common mistake of placing finger on trigger - usually the main reason shots are fired

How much training do you think that soldiers get on handguns.

[Buzz Shitegear]

How many striker fired pistols do you have to ease the springs before a field strip to clean?
How many users have an ND because they do not check chamber first?

It happens - not to you or I ! (it happens)

Buzz

[Chuck]

How much training do you think that soldiers get on handguns.

Which army? Ours?? Probably not a lot.

As for the other,

Doing that on any handgun that I am aware of and it won't shoot. The trigger would need to be released to reset and pulled again before it would shoot

. HMMM When the slide is locked (locks) back, the trigger IS set, slide flies forward and a flinch is all that's needed to drop the hammer. Likewise if slide is forward, insert mag, rack slide and release to chamber round and you're all set for a bang if you then pull the trigger - even on DA only if you pull hard or long enough.

On striker pistols you may have to disengage the trigger safety but either way having your finger ON the trigger when reloading is classic stupid. Rule 3 mate. Keep finger OFF the trigger until target in sight and you are ready to take the shot.

What pistol(s) do you have in mind that doesn't do this ordnance, it would be interesting to know?

[ordnance]

What pistol(s) do you have in mind that doesn't do this ordnance, it would be interesting to know?

As you say you still have to pull the trigger after releasing the slide. Its not a good idea to release the slide with you finger on the trigger but it won't shoot. As for Glocks the slide needs to be forward and the trigger pulled to set the striker before it will shoot. It won't shoot if the slide is released with your finger on the trigger. I have just tried it on my CZ 75 and 1911 .45 one single action and one double action just to be sure. I released the slide with my finger on the trigger the hammer does not drop unless I release the trigger and then pull it again. Any of the guys with LBP can try it if they don't believe me.

[Chuck]

Ordnance, maybe a wee bit of confusion here as to what I mean? I haven't tried pulling the trigger as I release the slide, must try it and find out what happens - not that breaking safety rules is a good idea. Where I was coming from was having a finger on the trigger as the slide closes, all too easy to send one off as the slide goes in to battery and everything is then good to go. Whatever way you do it, it's bad practice and sloppy gun handling.

I'll try it on our Sig 229 and Glock 23 next time over

I suppose it's a bit like figuring out which pistols will still fire when the mag is removed.

[Maggot]

How many striker fired pistols do you have to ease the springs before a field strip to clean?
How many users have an ND because they do not check chamber first?

It happens - not to you or I ! (it happens)

Buzz

Makes no difference how it is fired to be fair.

What matters is that the drills are correct, source of ammunition removed, chamber checked clear and working parts forwad and springs eased.

All of course while the thing is pointed in a safe direction.

Granted, some weapons just dont inspire confidence when carried ready (Stirling....Arrrggghhhhh zzzzom )

[Maggot]

Safety catches are for those who cannot be trusted to stop faffing about with the trigger.

No they are not they are a backup in case the trigger is accidently pulled for whatever reason. Firearms manufacturers don't fit them for the fun of it.

Now that is the most sensible thing I have read for a long time.

I get sick to death of folk saying that a safety is a waste of time because you should not rely on them.

OK, we know that they are no compensation for good handling....on a range (which lets face it is where most of us handle the things these days), but during a momentary lapse of concentration, when you are going through thick brush, bouncing about in a vehicle, or turning with potentially a mate in the way.....would you really just want to trust to luck as your brains fade?

A well designed, reliable safety is worth its weight in the right situation.

Sure, you should not rely on it to compensate for bad handling or laziness, but they have a place.....other than on a Stirling which is the work of the devil and is only good for a deac :55:

[Sim G]

How many of these ND's have been attributed to a striker fired pistol, with no external safety, that has been drawn from a holster where it is the trigger fire that releases the holster lock, such as the Blackhawk Serpa? I'm led to believe that US federal agents are no longer issued such a holster because of this issue.

[Chuck]

Sim, Biggest problem I've seen with those locking jobs is NOT getting the gun out first time, which in time of stress would easily lead to making other errors, like finger on the trigger mid draw to save time in a real situation. .

Placing finger on the trigger mid draw in training is quite a common error.

With SERPAS the trigger IS covered when gun is holstered so it takes skill to hit it at the start of the draw. Assuming a smooth draw, your finger automatically falls to the frame of the gun not the trigger, that's a conscious move.