The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Question 2

Your brass prep methods please :-). I have struggled with new brass and elevation spread - yours is very good so very selfishly I wish to see if there's anything I can learn there!!

I treat all NEW brass as per follow (also any once fired brass that was not fired in my gun.

BULLET PREP by Batch
1. Full Length Resize (Imperial Resizing Wax - Redding Full Length - No button)
* Use Shooting Shed Case Sizing Gauge
2. Wipe down
3. Trim to Size on Wilson Trimmer (Uniform length 2.008 - make sure I identify any shorter cases)
4. CASE Uniforming
4.1. Primer Pocket Uniform
4.2. Flashhole Uniform
4.3. Outside Neck Chamfer (for burrs from trimming)
4.4. Inside neck chamfer (Light touch VLD angle)

CASE PREP by Case (i.e. following steps done in sequence per case)
5. KM Expanding Mandrel
6. KM Neck Turn to uniform thickness (can only done after trimming since depth control is off a ledge and you dont want to cut into shoulder)
7. Polish turned neck with steel wool and kitchen scourer - clean inside of neck with Q-tip
8. Resize Case on the Redding Bushing Die (with my required bushing size)

CASE Sort by Batch
9. Sort cases by 1 grain weight increments (only after ALL prep is done since it changes the weight)
* typically Lapua brass will distribute in 4 weight segments generally 10 x 171 : 40 x 172 : 40 x 173 : 10 x 174+

MY FIRED BRASS (I track the number of times I shot each case.)
1. I resize in Redding Bushing Die with my optimal bushing and tumble / wipe down
2. After every 2nd firing I will check & trim to length (cases will change at different incremental speed depending on the pressures / loads you put through them)
3. Every 3rd firing I anneal - resize and check length
4. I Ultra sonic clean the case after annealing.

Hope it clarifies
Tim "ENS"

ovenpaa wrote:Your plot sheets make for very interesting reading Tim, they certainly tell quite a story.

sign92 :cheers:

Good - can you tell it - the story to me - to me :-)

Seriously any observations / comments will improve my knowledge

Sometimes we can't see the most obvious things - since we are to close to it! emrolleyes

Question 3

Mr_Logic wrote: and last but not least - have you tried 8208xbr? Bought a tub to try last time out. ..

No honestly not looked or tried 8208xbr yet.

"IMR 8208 XBR The latest in the versatile IMR line of fine propellants, this accurate metering, super short grained extruded rifle powder was designed expressly for match, varmint, and AR sniper cartridges. Ideally suited for cartridges like the 223 Remington/5.56mm, 308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO and the 6mm PPC, shooters will find IMR 8208 XBR totally insensitive to changes in temperature, while yielding max velocities and “tack driving” accuracy. Clearly, the competitor’s “choice” and the Varmint Hunter’s “dream powder”."
http://www.imrpowder.com/rifle.html

I took my "standard load" for Berger Hybrid - TR 140 @46.gn and CCI-BR and replaced it with some alternates

Quickoad shows the following:

TR140 : 61,240 psi : 2990
8208xbr : 63,059 psi : 3026
H4895 : 60,018 psi : 3029
Varget : 55,691 psi : 2929
IMR4895 : 54,449 psi : 2980
V135 : 60,021 psi : 2962
V140 : 58,048 psi : 2982

I reckon IMR 8208 XBR could be a great accurate powder - but near the max charges / speeds it generates more pressure than H4895 and IMR4895 or Varget

Bang for buck the TR140 that "Commonside" brings in is brilliant and my go to powder. :shakeshout: It cost about 60% of the man stream options and does NOT give up anything!
Its the perfect powder for up to 155gn/3050 fps and very temp stable and gave me great SD (got mine down to 6 to 7 fps)

IMR 8208 XBR is still worth a good test / go!
Each gun has its own "appetite" for what works. A golden combo in mine may be a ogre in yours and visa versa

Tim "ENS"

Thanks Tim - very helpful indeed! I've always shied away from neck turning due to time - I reload for my other half too and it takes an age as it is. Guess I might have to look into it as my elevation spread is too big right now.

If ever you want someone to split a target with - give me a shout!

Mr_Logic wrote:Thanks Tim - very helpful indeed! I've always shied away from neck turning due to time - I reload for my other half too and it takes an age as it is. Guess I might have to look into it as my elevation spread is too big right now.
If ever you want someone to split a target with - give me a shout!

Time she learns!!!

neck turning is an once off exercise - you can look at properly doing about 20 cases an hour!

Hmmm... Think I'll have to get on and do it. Presumably, there's little point in doing so until it's a new batch of brass - all mine has at least one firing now, and my 223 brass is archaic (though still working, despite good stiff loads).

I doubt I'll ever get her to make her own ammo, although I will have another go, because she also has a horse - anything which takes time gets put second in favour of the horse. I do enjoy going shooting with her so I have to be nice about it

Hi Mr_Logic

NECK TURNING
"Presumably, there's little point in doing so until it's a new batch of brass - all mine has at least one firing now"
No reason whey you cant start on once fired - I have done plenty - you still get benefit
Start with 20 or so and test and learn - allows you to compare turned vs untuned

ANNEALING
"my 223 brass is archaic (though still working, despite good stiff loads).""
Take 20 old cases and experiment - also allows you to compare annealled vs unannealled
Go to machine mart - get the burner / gas - you will be up and running for less than £50
Shooting Shed makes awesome case holders for 308 and 223 annealling

BTW Bisley Range office you can get once fired 223 brass for 5p a case

Tim "ENS"

Thanks Tim. Presumably that's RG brass at the range office?

EagerNoSkill wrote:
ANNEALING
Go to machine mart - get the burner / gas - you will be up and running for less than £50
Shooting Shed makes awesome case holders for 308 and 223 annealling

Tim "ENS"

Can someone help me with what type of burner and gas I'm looking for at Machine Mart?

Watcher wrote:
Can someone help me with what type of burner and gas I'm looking for at Machine Mart?

Get the Shooting Shed Annealing Case Holder
It allows you to add / remove vases rapidly and you remove risk of burns from holding it!
I am holding the drill extension bit - so the case is spun in the gas flame to evenly distribute the heat on the case neck

The GAS from this system produce temps in excess of 1500 so more than adequate.

I got +- 1000 cases done with a single bottle!