The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Chuck wrote:err, I'm not much of a geologist etc but just WHERE did lead come from oringinally...it sure as heck don't grow on trees does it.

:cool2:

By firing off all those lead rounds were ARE doing our bit for the planet..we are sending back a metal we dug OUT of it in the first place..If it happens occasionally to be lodged in the carcass of someone who deserves it then fine, we are still enriching the soil......

greens....muppets.

Plutonium, Uranium, Arsenic and other very deadly elements are all natural, and come from the ground too...but I don't suggest you mess with them...

Lead in itself is not very toxic in chunks - It's when it's in particulate, compounds, or vapor form.

I only worry about it when shooting indoors - Good ventilation is important, and as has been said, avoid eating, smoking, touching eyes etc. until you've washed your hands.....I try not to worry too much though...the booze and fags will probably get me first.

... or the ricochet !

meles meles wrote:... or the ricochet !

:lol: indeed!

You may well be right, Dougan. But i either abide by their rules of i don't get to stalk there. There are many who will line up to get my ground.

That BBC article, and the sources it cites, are utter dog toffee. Since when did lead "lubricate" barrels?? And a study on lead pollution from the "Environmental Working Group" ... let's do some due diligence. Put the name through Wiki and look what comes back:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmen ... mpt_Status

On February 8, 2002, the Bellevue, WA based Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise wrote a letter to the IRS, claiming that the EWG's "excessive lobbying and politicking" activities are "clearly illegal and should (at a minimum) result in revocation of the organization's tax-exempt status."[29] The complaint charges that the group hid its political-lobbying expenditures, failed to register as a lobbyist in California, submitted false or misleading reports with the IRS and acted as a political-action organization in violation of Section 501(c)(3) rules. Ron Arnold, executive vice president of the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise, stated that "The Environmental Working Group is not what it seems. Its goal is not protecting the environment. Its goal is power--political power."

Don't even get me started on the content of that "study", the first page alone makes so many wild logical leaps and assumptions that even a cursory glance shows you that it is not science.

Assuming a very modest level of activity at America's 1,813 firing ranges - just 15 customers shooting 50 rounds a day - firing ranges would put nearly nine million pounds of lead into the environment per year.

Rifle ranges have stopbutts. These stopbutts are constructed so as to capture lead projectiles safely. Ranges are also regularly deleaded. The wording of this claim makes it sound like shooters are randomly spraying the countryside with some form of liquid lead spray and dancing for joy as Bambi keels over.

The BBC's environmental department has long been known for taking a partisan line while presenting skewed evidence as impartial fact. I would place hard cash on this article being placed by a behind-the-scenes lobbying campaign to kill off recreational shooting through banning lead ammunition. As if the antis don't know how staggeringly expensive non-lead ammo is!

It's lucky you lot aren't fish...

*chuckles*

Gaz wrote:That BBC article, and the sources it cites, are utter dog toffee. Since when did lead "lubricate" barrels?? And a study on lead pollution from the "Environmental Working Group" ... let's do some due diligence. Put the name through Wiki and look what comes back:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmen ... mpt_Status

On February 8, 2002, the Bellevue, WA based Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise wrote a letter to the IRS, claiming that the EWG's "excessive lobbying and politicking" activities are "clearly illegal and should (at a minimum) result in revocation of the organization's tax-exempt status."[29] The complaint charges that the group hid its political-lobbying expenditures, failed to register as a lobbyist in California, submitted false or misleading reports with the IRS and acted as a political-action organization in violation of Section 501(c)(3) rules. Ron Arnold, executive vice president of the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise, stated that "The Environmental Working Group is not what it seems. Its goal is not protecting the environment. Its goal is power--political power."

Don't even get me started on the content of that "study", the first page alone makes so many wild logical leaps and assumptions that even a cursory glance shows you that it is not science.

Assuming a very modest level of activity at America's 1,813 firing ranges - just 15 customers shooting 50 rounds a day - firing ranges would put nearly nine million pounds of lead into the environment per year.

Rifle ranges have stopbutts. These stopbutts are constructed so as to capture lead projectiles safely. Ranges are also regularly deleaded. The wording of this claim makes it sound like shooters are randomly spraying the countryside with some form of liquid lead spray and dancing for joy as Bambi keels over.

The BBC's environmental department has long been known for taking a partisan line while presenting skewed evidence as impartial fact. I would place hard cash on this article being placed by a behind-the-scenes lobbying campaign to kill off recreational shooting through banning lead ammunition. As if the antis don't know how staggeringly expensive non-lead ammo is!

Well spotted - anyone would think you're a journalist :P

NGOs (non government organisations) like EWG wouldn't be taken seriously at policy level without data to back up their claims...hopefully!

That said, the laws on toxins can be strict - if a substance is shown to be a carcinogen (and in some forms lead can be), then policy makers will often adopt the precautionary principle, and restrict it.

I can see how a large range could cause an environmental problem - if rain run off from the butt stops (where the lead will be oxidising) was to contaminate the water table, then that's not good...but a rifle range shouldn't be different to anything else when it comes to planning permission...so simply don't build ranges near areas of catchment...

....I think you could be right, in that the EWG could be as anti-shooting as they are environmental.

Scotsgun wrote:You may well be right, Dougan. But i either abide by their rules of i don't get to stalk there. There are many who will line up to get my ground.

Fair enough, but it does sound daft... for the amount of lead (and the fact it's solid and randomly spread) that a few stalkers would add to the environment.

Lead poisoning?

As a plumber, I was asked by an elderly gentleman to replace the lead pipes in his house.

He had a five bedroomed (all with washbasins) two bathroomed, house with kitchen, scullery and utility room.

The water was supplied in lead pipes from road to loft.

Lovely job, months work, cor, hear the till ringing.

I asked him why he wanted to spend so much money "Because lead is dangerous" he said.

I asked him how old he was and how long he had lived in the house. Eighty he said, and I was born in the front bedroom.

His parents had lived into their nineties and both died of old age.

Niether of them had gone daft or suffered any illness.

I said that, as he had obviously not gone daft in the eighty years he had been 'exposed' to lead and probably wan't going to continue the exposure for another eighty years, he should save his money.

In fairness, the pipes, after a while and even in Devon where the water was notoriously soft, become coated with calcium and the water doesn't touch the lead unless you 'interfere with it.

So, yes lead is undoubtedly dangerous, unless you are silly and don't wash your hands, use ventilation etc. the dangers can be overstated.

And, I suspect, it is not lead poisoning which kills wildlife, it is the sheer bulk and weight of the shot which causes the problem.

I like lead, without it my sport would be too expensive.



Oh, and I got a fiver for my trouble, months of work from his friends and slept soundly at night.