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I doubt anyoine is suggesting ALWAYS loaded mags, even at home as some seem to think...I doubt that loading a mag an hour before you use it will damage any springs...

Using the weak springs logic would suggest an armed cop carrying a loaded mag for a full shift would somehow be doing hs equipment some harm.

For you AR types, magpul make M16 mags with neat wee covers that clip on the to to keep them clean.

We had a chap turn up for a black powder assessment who didn't like carrying the powder etc in his car. So he had loaded the cylinders with both powder and ball - and had then capped them so he didn't have extra stuff to carry to the firing point. The cylinders were then, in effect, rolling around in the boot of his car on his drive to Bisley. wtfwtf

We pointed out to him that he had just driven all that way with what was actually a couple of hand grenades in his boot and failed him on the spot!

Some people....... sign01

Heather

hmmm should I mention the trays of BP cylinders being loaded with powder & ball and then being capped behind the firing point.

sign01

Chuck wrote:I doubt anyoine is suggesting ALWAYS loaded mags, even at home as some seem to think...I doubt that loading a mag an hour before you use it will damage any springs...

Using the weak springs logic would suggest an armed cop carrying a loaded mag for a full shift would somehow be doing hs equipment some harm.

For you AR types, magpul make M16 mags with neat wee covers that clip on the to to keep them clean.

Chuck wrote:Using the weak springs logic would suggest an armed cop carrying a loaded mag for a full shift would somehow be doing hs equipment some harm.

British soldiers on operations are advised to de-bomb their mags on a regular basis to prevent weakening the spring from keeping them filled over a long period of time. (so says my bullet-counting mate in green, anyway)

John25 wrote:As I said, two reasons not to:-

Weakened springs

Dirt.

But what do I know?

Heck, you can always come last and buy new magazines




I wish I had a quid for every magazine failure I have witnessed which lost a winning score.

Fill 'em up, keep em filled, give me an advantage.

:cheers:

It is not keeping magazines fully loaded that weakens the springs, it's the numerous cycles of compression and expansion that do. So, loading, unloading loading, unloading, loading etc is what kills the springs. Springs held under a constant load do not weaken, especially with todays metalurgy. Likewise, staying in the gun world, the amount of pistols, rifles and sub-guns that have captive recoil springs, which are held under a constant load, they work just fine.

One AR15.com member reportedly discovered a fully loaded 20 round USGI mag that was loaded in the Vietnam era. 20 some years later it not only functioned fine but continues to do so. Others have reported 1911 mags and Luger mags loaded up since World War II that continued to function perfectly when first fired after 40, 50 or 60 years.

It is not keeping magazines fully loaded that weakens the springs, it's the numerous cycles of compression and expansion that do

100% true, this is simple metallurgy.

I have used factory loaded FN FAL mags right out of the case they were sealed in during the 1960's.
No problems. I also keep loaded mags on the shelf. Been doing it for years.

John25 wrote:To the best of my knowlege, there is no law about how the ammunition should be transported, no restriction on it being carried in the magazine as long as it is not on the firearm.

Indeed, a gun with an empty magazine fitted is considered 'loaded'.

It is however bad practice to carry filled magazines for two reasons.

1. Prolonged pressure will weaken the spring and cause feeding problems in due course.

2. The magazine is likely to pick up some debris, which will cause you problems on the day.

My advice? Carry them wrapped and empty.

You lose only seconds by it and it should be part of your final preparations, especially in competition, as your cone of concentration narrows.

I read somewhere that its NOT storing a spring compressed that weakens it but the number of times it is compressed and released - ie, it wears our after thousands of uses over a few years and that leaving a spring compressed ONCE for the same few years would not have the same effect.

breacher wrote:
I read somewhere that its NOT storing a spring compressed that weakens it but the number of times it is compressed and released - ie, it wears our after thousands of uses over a few years and that leaving a spring compressed ONCE for the same few years would not have the same effect.

Hmmm, we're wandering towards the realms of fatigue and creep here. Or maybe not...

Provided the yield point of the steel is not exceeded ("the elastic limit"), then leaving the magazines loaded and the springs therefore compressed will do no harm. Any good manufacturer will have chosen a spring steel that is nowhere near its yield point when fully compressed and so it's quite okay to leave magazines loaded and stored from that point of view. In the services it's generally taught that magazines should be emptied (and no, not by the 'Bosnian unload' technique) after each patrol and stored empty if the tactical situation permits ) - i.e. you are well away from any danger. This is as much to do with occupying idle hands and inspecting the ammo / magazine for damage as anything else - a dozen mags carried on the hips can pick up a lot of dirt and damage during the course of a patrol and we all know how frustrating a bent feed lip can be.

Now, assuming the magazines are not stored for decades, even centuries, at high temperatures, then creep of the springs won't be a problem either so the length of storage time becomes irrelevant metallurgically. In short, you can load, leave compressed and come back to them 30 years later and all should be well with the magazine and its spring. The ammo may be a bit less happy depending upon storage conditions but that's a different issue.

Repeated unloading and re-loading ? That's taking us towards fatigue endurance. Or probably not. Steel has quite a good fatigue life and we suspect that your paws will wear out long before the magazine springs do. Fatigue shouldn't enter into things until a you have a few hundred thousand load / unload cycles to consider. Think how many times the springs in your car suspension or watch load and unload each day ! It's what spring steel is designed to do, repeatedly.

In short, if you buy a good magazine from a competent manufacturer that uses good steel springs, you can load and unload, or load and leave stored, as much and as long as you like.

meles meles wrote:

breacher wrote:
I read somewhere that its NOT storing a spring compressed that weakens it but the number of times it is compressed and released - ie, it wears our after thousands of uses over a few years and that leaving a spring compressed ONCE for the same few years would not have the same effect.

Hmmm, we're wandering towards the realms of fatigue and creep here. Or maybe not...

Provided the yield point of the steel is not exceeded ("the elastic limit"), then leaving the magazines loaded and the springs therefore compressed will do no harm. Any good manufacturer will have chosen a spring steel that is nowhere near its yield point when fully compressed and so it's quite okay to leave magazines loaded and stored from that point of view. In the services it's generally taught that magazines should be emptied (and no, not by the 'Bosnian unload' technique) after each patrol and stored empty if the tactical situation permits ) - i.e. you are well away from any danger. This is as much to do with occupying idle hands and inspecting the ammo / magazine for damage as anything else - a dozen mags carried on the hips can pick up a lot of dirt and damage during the course of a patrol and we all know how frustrating a bent feed lip can be.

Now, assuming the magazines are not stored for decades, even centuries, at high temperatures, then creep of the springs won't be a problem either so the length of storage time becomes irrelevant metallurgically. In short, you can load, leave compressed and come back to them 30 years later and all should be well with the magazine and its spring. The ammo may be a bit less happy depending upon storage conditions but that's a different issue.

Repeated unloading and re-loading ? That's taking us towards fatigue endurance. Or probably not. Steel has quite a good fatigue life and we suspect that your paws will wear out long before the magazine springs do. Fatigue shouldn't enter into things until a you have a few hundred thousand load / unload cycles to consider. Think how many times the springs in your car suspension or watch load and unload each day ! It's what spring steel is designed to do, repeatedly.

In short, if you buy a good magazine from a competent manufacturer that uses good steel springs, you can load and unload, or load and leave stored, as much and as long as you like.

Brock, Like you, I used a few magazines in Babylon. I was a particular barsteward, and numbered them, rotating which one I stripped, cleaned and rested. I have since come to the conclusion that since the invention of the A2, this was more than likely entirely unnecessary.
I believe magpul P-Mags are now the in thing. I also note from brownell's website it is possible to buy springs, at notable expense,which are 5% stronger.