The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Yes a 1:12 will stabilise both, I assume you are going to be looking at the Berger 185's then, are the 185 Hybrid's over here yet?

Mr_Logic wrote:

Gun Pimp wrote:

Watcher wrote:Something that has been niggling me is the question of barrel life for F Class. Some of the chaps in my club shoot F Class very seriously and would expect to change their barrels at what are, to me, incredibly short intervals.

I'm idling about getting a .223 set up for some not too serious F Class competition. My problem is that my Protestant soul (and wallet) can't cope with a barrel change every year!!

It may be that I just have to accept that I can't play with the big boys (doesn't worry me) but I would worry if I know that I will quickly burn out a barrel whatever I did.

Watcher,

I think a lot of us have had a shock regarding barrel-life. Yes, you won't get much more than 750 rounds out of the 'super sevens' - WSMs and the like.

I burnt-out a 308 at 1200 rounds - which did shock me - and I know of another shooter who did the same. When you start using double-base powders to attain velocities over 3000 fps, don't expect 3 - 4000 rounds from the barrel.

Laurie Holland's 223 was re-barrelled at around 2200 I think - 90 grain bullets and Reloader 17 = HOT!

Unfortunately, at the highest level, barrels are a 'disposable' item.

If you want your 308 to last, stick to a single-base powder and sub. 3000fps velocity.

Haing said all that - my home range Diggle has a 2 & 20 F Class shoot every fortnight - if you shoot every one, it's only 500 rounds per year.

Incidentally Watcher - you can't be too far from Diggle?

Vince

I'm starting to think I need to move near Diggle just to be able to practice!

As a matter of curiosity, what are people using in terms of powder nowadays for a 155 or a 185 bullet - my 308 is on order with Sanselm so I'm starting to wonder what food I need to buy for it!!

I use N140 (or lately TR140) at about 2950 -3000 fps, and I expect about 6000 rounds barrel life.


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I use N140 (or lately TR140) at about 2950 -3000 fps, and I expect about 6000 rounds barrel life.
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Most of the top F/TR guys look on half MOA accuracy as the 'starting point'. It might be difficult to get this kind of performance after 6000 rounds - some don't even get it from a new barrel! It's all about 'expectations'!

I rebarrelled a TR rifle recently with 4000 plus rounds down the barrel - it was still shooting great but took about two hours to get the copper out of the barrel. I sectioned the old barrel - it was really very good, except for the first couple of millimetres, which were badly burnt and stripping copper off each bullet.

Vince

Mr Anselm recommended that I try the 185 Berger LD BT's when I was getting blown all over the range with SMK 155'S.
So far they are working for me and they are certainly working for Stuart as he has just won the Europeans with them. They are nicknamed the Juggernauts in the states and when you look at the down range velocities you can see why.

Muzzle velocity is lower than the 155's at around 1750 0 1800fps being the optimum speed. You have to be careful not to go higher than around 1843fps or 4500J energy limit. The 185 VLD's are more sensitive to seating depth and thus require more testing.
when every round fired is decreasing the life of your barrel and the 185's are not cheap it is in my opinion an avenue for the more experienced loader with funds to experiment with.

I started with Viht 550 and have stuck with it due to not wanting to start again with this barrel, but come a new barrel I will be trying the single based powders,

DM

Dangermouse wrote:
Muzzle velocity is lower than the 155's at around 1750 0 1800fps being the optimum speed. You have to be careful not to go higher than around 1843fps or 4500J energy limit. The 185 VLD's are more sensitive to seating depth and thus require more testing.
when every round fired is decreasing the life of your barrel and the 185's are not cheap it is in my opinion an avenue for the more experienced loader with funds to experiment with.

I started with Viht 550 and have stuck with it due to not wanting to start again with this barrel, but come a new barrel I will be trying the single based powders,

DM

DM - Stuart (Mr Anselm) is running the 185s around 2775fps using Vit 150. You won't have a problem switching from Vit 550 to Vit 150 - but you just might get better barrel-life.

Unforunately, bullets and barrels are no longer the biggest expense:

Europeans: Fuel £100, Entry fee £120, accommodation £165, plus Shoot dinner £20. Other stuff £50.

Bullets (110 x 115gn DTACs) £30, wear on barrel £60 - priceless!

Vince

Gun Pimp wrote: Most of the top F/TR guys look on half MOA accuracy as the 'starting point'. It might be difficult to get this kind of performance after 6000 rounds - some don't even get it from a new barrel! It's all about 'expectations'!

Indeed, I wouldn't expect that performance after 6000, and if I were heading for a really major competition I would plan to arrive with somewhere between 1000 and 3000 through it (putting the old one aside as a spare if necessary, or moving to number two gun). Of course, I'm only looking for 3/4 minute performance (without rest or scope), so it's obvously less demanding than for 'top' F/TR class shooters. I think, though, it illustrates that for the majority who are on their journey up to the top, they needn't necessarily have expectations of only getting one or two thousand rounds out of a barrel, especially if they use single-base powders (and it was interesting to see so many single-base users at the top of the recent European results).

Gun Pimp wrote:I sectioned the old barrel - it was really very good, except for the first couple of millimetres, which were badly burnt and stripping copper off each bullet.

It amazes me why more people don't rechamber as the throat starts to burn. In this situation it seems like almost re-setting the barrel count for a quarter of the cost (although unfortunately my action doesn't permit this).


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Gun Pimp wrote:I sectioned the old barrel - it was really very good, except for the first couple of millimetres, which were badly burnt and stripping copper off each bullet.

It amazes me why more people don't rechamber as the throat starts to burn. In this situation it seems like almost re-setting the barrel count for a quarter of the cost (although unfortunately my action doesn't permit this).
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Had it been my own barrel, I might well have done, as it would have cost me nothing to extend its life by a couple of thousand rounds.

However, the cost of the work to this shooter may not have seemed such a bargain, especially as the barrel was eight years old - maybe best to put the money towards a completely new barrel.

It depends on the level of performance you are looking for - nothing shoots like a 'fresh' barrel with a couple of hundred rounds down it. In fact, when the rifle was new, we took it to Bangor Tunnel range to sort out a load. With its 'light Palma' profile barrel I was stunned to see it shoot a 0.75 inch five-shot group at 300 yards! (The rifle was fitted with a 36BR Leupold scope and benchrested)

Vince