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IainWR wrote:Hi Judders

If you are an NRA member you can always phone their Firearms Liaison Officer for help and advice. The NRA acts as referee for shooters from all over the country, and can see where police forces are out of step with accepted practice. Also, simply though doing it hundreds of times, the FLO will spot errors or omissions on applications. Also, the FLO happens to be the bloke that edits the NRA rulebook, so will probably know the answer to questions on range regulations and competition rules.

01483 797777 ext 154 - it forwards to a mobile so will get an answer at most reasonable times.

Iain
Firearms Liaison Officer
NRA

Cheers Iain. As it happens, I am an NRA member, so that's useful to know.

christel wrote: People standing chatting with a rifle butt on their foot and the pointy end up in the air.
:shock:
As far as I am concerned, a rifle should only EVER be pointing in one direction and that is down the range. Be that as you take it out of the case/slip or put it back in.
Practical shotgun being the exception (I know it is not a rifle, just clarifying)

At our local club, we would get a kicking for that sort of behaviour!

That's an interesting point, and leads me to ask a newb type question. If the pointy end is in the air, and the thing goes off, is that not safer than if it is pointing down the range but someone is standing in front of it? On my first visit I was a bit surprised to see a number of rifles parked on their bipods at the back of the shooting area pointing down towards the targets. Anyone going to shoot is in front of them. My limited experience with shotguns makes me nervous if the pointy end of anything is towards me, it seems safer to hold them pointing up. Except perhaps at Bisley where aircraft fly overhead sometimes.

shugie wrote:

christel wrote: People standing chatting with a rifle butt on their foot and the pointy end up in the air.
:shock:
As far as I am concerned, a rifle should only EVER be pointing in one direction and that is down the range. Be that as you take it out of the case/slip or put it back in.
Practical shotgun being the exception (I know it is not a rifle, just clarifying)

At our local club, we would get a kicking for that sort of behaviour!

That's an interesting point, and leads me to ask a newb type question. If the pointy end is in the air, and the thing goes off, is that not safer than if it is pointing down the range but someone is standing in front of it? On my first visit I was a bit surprised to see a number of rifles parked on their bipods at the back of the shooting area pointing down towards the targets. Anyone going to shoot is in front of them. My limited experience with shotguns makes me nervous if the pointy end of anything is towards me, it seems safer to hold them pointing up. Except perhaps at Bisley where aircraft fly overhead sometimes.

"Rifles parked on their bipods at the back of the shooting area pointing down towards the targets" have all been cleared by the RCO.

christel wrote:

shugie wrote:

christel wrote: People standing chatting with a rifle butt on their foot and the pointy end up in the air.
:shock:
As far as I am concerned, a rifle should only EVER be pointing in one direction and that is down the range. Be that as you take it out of the case/slip or put it back in.
Practical shotgun being the exception (I know it is not a rifle, just clarifying)

At our local club, we would get a kicking for that sort of behaviour!

That's an interesting point, and leads me to ask a newb type question. If the pointy end is in the air, and the thing goes off, is that not safer than if it is pointing down the range but someone is standing in front of it? On my first visit I was a bit surprised to see a number of rifles parked on their bipods at the back of the shooting area pointing down towards the targets. Anyone going to shoot is in front of them. My limited experience with shotguns makes me nervous if the pointy end of anything is towards me, it seems safer to hold them pointing up. Except perhaps at Bisley where aircraft fly overhead sometimes.

"Rifles parked on their bipods at the back of the shooting area pointing down towards the targets" have all been cleared by the RCO.

Once a rifle has been cleared on the firing point it should be put in a case on the firing point and then removed away from the firing point and not removed from the case until it goes back onto a firing point .

Dave

Bisley seems to have it's own rule set regarding safe conduct with a firearm and I have to say it has set me cringing on many occasions. I am an RCO and on my firing point the rifle is only removed from the slip when I say it can be and once the shooter has finished the rifle is cleared, bagged and removed from the firing point.

That is very much GR policy.

The TR / MR community lives with bolts out / flags in and seems content. The rule is that the bolt must be removed and the firearm independently inspected before it leaves the point. Once inspected it is permitted to put the bolt back with a flag. It is then permissible to park the thing more or less where you like. It is not permitted to pick it up and point it (in any direction) unless you are on the mound and the range is clear

Synopsis in loose language of about a dozen rules.

Iain

Interesting, there seems to be quite a variation in what is accepted practice. I don' think our club is much different to the others present on a Sunday morning. As a relative newcomer, I'm not about to make observations about what should actually happen though. We certainly have the RCO checking weapons before they can leave the firing point, with flags in place, but not bagging.

Having had a quick look through the Bisley rules, there do seem to be some, like vehicles behind the firing point on Siberia, that are not enforced much, if at all.

The best advice I ever got was never start or develope bad habbits, have only good ones as routine. Then never be complacent just because you have good habits and things become routine.

TW

Bisley is unusual in that a fair amount of the shooting taking place is by individuals and small informal groups and as such they act as their own RCO's and I cannot recall anything untoward in all the time I have been shooting, they are all either experienced shooters or with experienced shooters, add to that they are invariably from HO approved clubs and will have RCO's in place at club level which instils a level of awareness that is for the most very good. I have shot with civilian clubs next to the army and had the OiC come over and comment on the safety and professionalism of the club.

At the other end of the scale at large events I have watched rifles be removed from cars, un-bagged and waved around without a care in the world, now I am absolutely sure they were experienced shooters and had flags in and/or bolts removed however it is difficult to be sure at 30/40m from the person.

I shot at the Phoenix last year in far from ideal weather conditions and Christel retired to the car behind the 1000 yard point. Eventually the comp was over and she helped me pack up, as we walked to the car she asked if shooters were allowed to wave rifles around behind the firing point, and then showed me the photographs of me shooting and people handling and discussing a rifle behind the point, our comp RCO was spot on and I am sure he would have commented on it if he had seen it.

Just an observation.

shugie wrote:
Having had a quick look through the Bisley rules, there do seem to be some, like vehicles behind the firing point on Siberia, that are not enforced much, if at all.

If it is the 200 yard Short Siberia, I believe Blue Badge holders are allowed to park near the firing points with permission from the office.