The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Fedaykin wrote:Not really, money was spent and decent engineering work put in. The rifle is reliable, robust and popular with troops who have had to depend on it to live now. Ironically there are a whole generation of troops who have used it in Afghanistan and Iraq who now defend it in the same way as those who used the SLR in 1982.

No rifle is perfect and certainly the development of the SA80 weapon system has been troubled but what is fielded now is certainly not a polished turd.

Frankly those who talk down the rifle now are either ignorant of the history or rather boorish.

Gun Jesus has an EXCELLENT video series on the development of the SA80 weapon system that really goes into the details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js4d8c7KzCQ

I am well aware of the history, its probably one of the worst and most expensive military rifle in history to be put in service. It was badly designed and made and cost and around one hundred million to fix the faults. It has being a disaster from start to finish. The fact that it now usually shoots when you pull the trigger is nothing to shout about, its still has terrible ergonomics and is to heavy compared with other designs. How did they manage to make a 5.65 mm rifle heaver than the 7.62 rifle it replaced. The fact that no other country was interested in it says a lot about the rifle, i think they did manage to give some away as military aid, better not mention the L85A1.

Enfield L85A1: Perhaps the Worst Modern Military Rifle - YouTube
Video for Enfield L85A1: Perhaps the Worst Modern Military Rifle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDCRop6CRwY

SA80 History: L85 A1 vs A2 (and the coming A3) - YouTube
Video for SA80 History: L85 A1 vs A2 (and the coming A3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js4d8c7KzCQ

Fedaykin wrote:

James048 wrote:For anyone who is interested, I was at a defence expo a few weeks ago and got my hands on the upgrade for the L85 (along with robots, Apaches and some other obscure things)... It was kitted out with an Elcan and a MUNS.

They've made it a different colour... that should solve everything.

Everything was solved years ago and it is now well regarded by our troops.

Yep I agree, it works just fine and they solved everything in that respect. I think my comment was misconstrued as a dig at its mechanical performance and in hindsight, 'solved' wasn't the right word. I should've stopped at 'made it a different colour'. I was hinting toward the growing feeling that 5.56 should be reviewed and a lighter platform selected in 6.5, or whatever may be chosen.

... But that just opens up another can of worms.

Just before I left the forces in 2014 they were bringing out L85's with receiver stamped 'A3'. They were the same colour as the A2 and the only noticeable difference was the scope rail being longer. I assume to accommodate the Elcan but they ended up putting ACOG's on or just the susat.
There were minor differences of the internals but didn't get much of a play before I left.
The handguards on most of the A2's had been changed to a dark earth colour already.

You can't polish a turd but you can respray it.

They may have solved the reliability problems, but that doesn't change the fact that it is awkward, heavy and un-handy.

Never liked bull-pups - either the SA80 or the Steyr AUG, and never will. I handled and shot both at Royal Military College of Science many years ago, and came away thinking that I wasn't impressed.