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I shoot a .223 remington 700 out to 600y and it shoots perfectly well.

Keeps up with the majority of the other shooters on the line when I've been and shot.

As above, relatively cheap to reload, common factory ammo available almost everywhere and it's fun out to 600 yards. It can be challenging in the wind, but learn to shoot a .223 and you'll be head and shoulders above the majority of firers on the line in terms of wind reading...

My 14 twist 222 rem probably shouldn't work past 100 yards going by this thread.

But results prove otherwise. Regularly keeps them in the vbull at 600 yards.

Don't assume all you hear is true, the 223 can do it, as can other "unsuitable calibers"

Take in what laurie says, he is one of the few people who knows almost everything, that actually knows it too, rather than joe bloggs, who overheard bob and bill in the pub.....

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Swamp Donkey wrote:My 14 twist 222 rem probably shouldn't work past 100 yards going by this thread.

But results prove otherwise. Regularly keeps them in the vbull at 600 yards.

I remember using a 222 Rem BSA CF2 out to 500 and 600 yards many, many years ago before I bought my first 223. As you say handloads (probably 55gn Nosler Ballistic Tips, but it's a bit fuzzy now!) would hit the 'black' no problem in anything other than outright gale conditions. What I did find one very cold December morning at Strensall Ranges with frost lying on the ground and not melting all day was that 600 yards performance went to pieces, although 300 and 500 had been fine. The markers said most bullets went through the paper sideways, so these relatively long bullets were likely only marginally stabilised in the 14-twist and that day's very cold air tipped them over into instability. Shame as it was a dead still day, so it would have shown what the rifle would do! You can still get flat-base 50gn FMJs made by SAKO and Lapua especially for the 222 and designed for Scandinavian winter bird hunting in extreme conditions - I assume the birds are stalked and shot on he ground, not in flight! The cartridge is allegedly still very popular in the region. Every now and then I'm tempted to have another 222 - a very nice little cartridge for short-range work, but I have a .30BR in the pipeline which should better the old Remy.

(The original Stoner AR-15 was built around the 222 Rem and its standard SAAMI 14-twist rifling pitch spec. Then the cartridge was twice redesigned to increase MVs, the first go rejected by the US military but adopted by Remington as the 222 Rem Magnum; the second initially called the 222 Super IIRC and that became the original 55gn FMJBT M193 5.56 and its 223 counterpart. Although the cartridge and bullet had by then been changed, the 14-twist survived in early M16XE rifles until the US Army put the rifle / ammo combination through Arctic weather trials in Iceland and it was found it couldn't hit a barn door at 500 metres. The M16A1 therefore went into production with the 12-inch twist, that also adopted by SAAMI for the 223 Rem civilian variant, and it suits this class of bullet very well.)

Thanks to all for your thoughts and especially Laurie for his detailed answers.

These are my choices as I see them and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about anything.
Pretty much all the cartridges mentioned, from .223 to .308, can, in good hands, with the right ammo, in a decent rifle achieve acceptable accuracy (sub MOA) up to at least 600yds with reduced recoil.
I'm dividing them into 4 groups : 5.5mm, 6mm, 6.5mm, 7.5mm (I don't think we've mentioned 7mm)

5.5mm i.e .223
Cheapest to run with good barrel life. Least recoil of all. Available in 9" twist varmint barrel for around £500. More affected by wind drift than larger calibres so potentially more challenging. (We like a challenge).
Something like this

6mm ie 6mmBR and. 243
6mmBR doesn't seem to be available in budget but sounds excellent.
.243 - ticks all the boxes. Question mark over barrel life but given I'll likely only shoot 200-300 rounds per year may not be an issue anytime soon especially if I shoot light loads.
Pretty
Another stainless
These are both local to me and the first one is my favourite.

6.5mm - 6.5 Creedmoor, .260, 6.5x55
Nothing significant to choose between these. Does everything I need. 6.5x55 would be difficult to change to a different calibre later due to the long action and along with. 260 are hard to find in budget.
Not stainless but new
Above also available in 6.5x55.

7mm ???

7.5mm ie .308
Soft loads/muzzle brake/moderator to manage recoil. Probably the widest choice of used and new within budget.
Why choose. 308 when I could have 6.5 creedmoor?
Just an example

Summary
Keep it simple = .223
Low cost gun = .243
Just do it = 6.5 Creedmoor

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Considering your needs and the general spirit of your question that you are recoil averse I think the best choice for you is a Barratt M99 in .50BMG!



Man up pain is just weakness leaving the body!

Don't worry snayperskaya will be here in a moment to tell you an M44 Carbine is the best choice!

I would clearly love one of those. It's such a pity it wouldn't fit in my cabinet.

After much deliberation this was the result.
Went for .223 for cheaper reloading and sufficient for accurate work out to 600yards and maybe further.

treetop wrote:I would get a 6.5..
Any that are out there will compete with a 308, but flatter & less recoil.
You can easily shoot anything from 120 grain to 140 grain out to 1000yrds

6.5 creedmoor, 6.5x47 lapua, 260 Rem, 6.5x55

I would agree, my son (13) shoots a Ruger PR in 6.5CM, I load him 140gr Amax and he has no problems, it does however have a muzzle brake which made a big difference.

Geek wrote:

treetop wrote:I would get a 6.5..
Any that are out there will compete with a 308, but flatter & less recoil.
You can easily shoot anything from 120 grain to 140 grain out to 1000yrds

6.5 creedmoor, 6.5x47 lapua, 260 Rem, 6.5x55

I would agree, my son (13) shoots a Ruger PR in 6.5CM, I load him 140gr Amax and he has no problems, it does however have a muzzle brake which made a big difference.

Do they allow 13 year old's to shoot at Diggle.

Alpha1 wrote:

Geek wrote:

treetop wrote:I would get a 6.5..
Any that are out there will compete with a 308, but flatter & less recoil.
You can easily shoot anything from 120 grain to 140 grain out to 1000yrds

6.5 creedmoor, 6.5x47 lapua, 260 Rem, 6.5x55

I would agree, my son (13) shoots a Ruger PR in 6.5CM, I load him 140gr Amax and he has no problems, it does however have a muzzle brake which made a big difference.

Do they allow 13 year old's to shoot at Diggle.

Yes, we both shoot McQueens, Fly and Egg shoots. Hopefully a lot more next year.

We both shoot at Rossendale Fusiliers too.