The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Sim G wrote:

Quarters wrote:The sticking point seems to be hand guns and semi-auto full-bore rifles.

I don't see 9mm pistols and AR15s as being recreational firearms - I fully accept this might just me having a biased view. I used to own a Berretta 92 and would again if the law allowed so I can't be that biased.

If you list the types of firearms that are legal in the UK it's a long list with plenty of choice.

I don't go with the "if we are deemed responsible and fit to own firearms then why not allow us to have handguns and semi-auto rifles" as that can then be extended to fully auto, which can then be extended to grenades and so on.

As far as the "you can own a .55" Boys anti-tank rifle but not a 9mm handgun! " I think you'd be hard pushed to walk into a bank with a concealed an anti-tank rifle.

I'm not saying I'm right about where the line is drawn and maybe I'm only happy because my discipline (F class / FTR) is on the good side of the line. I respect the opinion of these who disagree. The thread asked for my comments so here they are.

Just about everything that is wrong with the attitude of a large part of British shooters is here in this post. As much as it appears "reasonable", it is discriminatory, selfish, sensationalising and appeasing and entrenched solidly with an "I'm alright, Jack" cornerstone...

I couldn't agree more Sim

I don't pheasant shoot with a shotgun, deerstalk with a rifle or shoot competitively but I would strongly support other shooters rights to do so and would not discrimate or say they shouldn't be allowed because it's not my thing.

Quarters....if your discipline is on the "good side of the line" does that mean that, for example, folks who shoot straight pull/lever release/MARS rifles are on the wrong side of the line?......it is my understanding that a bullet comes out of the barrel of a F class/FTR rifle the same as it does out of mine, with the same result if used in the wrong hands!!!.

Quarters wrote:
I don't see 9mm pistols and AR15s as being recreational firearms

Hmmm, well my my 9mm Southern Gun Company AR-15 platform lever-release rifle is a PURE Recreational firearm It is by far one of my favourite rifles.

Quarters wrote:
I don't see 9mm pistols and AR15s as being recreational firearms - I fully accept this might just me having a biased view. I used to own a Berretta 92 and would again if the law allowed so I can't be that biased.

So why did you have one if you didn't think it was a recreational firearm, considering self defence isn't good reason to own a firearm here?

Quarters wrote:
I don't see 9mm pistols and AR15s as being recreational firearms...I used to own a Berretta 92 and would again if the law allowed so I can't be that biased.

As far as the "you can own a .55" Boys anti-tank rifle but not a 9mm handgun! " I think you'd be hard pushed to walk into a bank with a concealed an anti-tank rifle.

So - YOUR use for your Berretta(?) was to rob banks? You've NOT given a recreational use for it....so using your logic, then YOU were a bank robber (& it IS 100% correct that YOU lost YOUR 9mm pistol)

The rest of your post....FFS! Glad that YOU are okay with the present UK laws on what can & cannot be owned.

OK, question for YOU: How does the UK shooter compare to our European cousins?
Do the European shooters have less access to firearm types, or more? (ANY other European country ban pistols, semi-auto rifles, CS gas/Pepper spray, etc.?)
What about the countries that DO STILL allow pistols, semi-auto rifles & full-auto guns (in some cases)?
(Streets running with blood every day & hundreds killed each week as a result of THEIR LEGAL ownership of firearms??) - or NOT....
If THEY have more access/types available over the Channel/North Sea, then WHY are we not on a par with them, or is European harmonisation & equality for all citizens not a valid right?
HOW are we UK folk ANY different - esp. as it tended to be us & folk of our ilk that pulled most of THEM out of the sticky messes of the two World Wars??

The sad fact is that WE have more rights of ownership when NOT physically standing on UK soil (except NI & IOM) than we do while on home turf, i.e. Outside the UK/EC, for one example is when I was in NZ. About an hour after landing I had a 12 month visitor permit; allowed ownership/use of as many shotguns (no magazine restriction limit, min. oal of 30") standard rifles & semi-auto rifles as I wanted. I borrowed a fully moderated AR15 to go rabbit shooting. I borrowed a 5 shot Rem 1100 to go dove shooting. I borrowed a very short 10/22 to go shooting...
No phone calls, no letters within 7 days, no asking permission for different ammo types as all types were ok & there were no qty. limits, no asking for land checks, etc.
Groups of 15 year old schoolkids would club together to buy old broken .22 rifles as "fixer-up" projects during school holidays...then, once fixed, use them for possum & rabbit control (They are also driving cars there at 15): Treat people as mature adults = get mature adults.
How do THEY compare to 15 year old British inner city yoofs?? WHO will make the more responsible adult, I know who my money is on & WHICH system of approaching this issue is the one that WORKS - or are we the only ones outside of North Korea, China & a couple of other parts of the world that have made a success of our firearms legislation & civilian ownership?

Suggest you read Colin Greenwood's book on firearms control if you ever get a chance.

I appear to have committed an awful crime.

I've disagreed with some people on the internet.

Yup..... Back away gently, doffing your cap as you pass.

Here are my comments on British gun laws:

The laws are fair. HOW?

The laws are sensible. HOW are they sensible, in what way?

I have access to a wide variety of firearms for recreational use. Good for you. At least you are OK

I don't want US style laws here. DO you understand US laws?? What is it you don't like about them?

I don't want firearms to be allowed for self-defence in this country. WHY? Do you believe people should be defenseless at all times and criminals should be free to do what they want. By definition then should the police also not be armed??? If not then WHY? They are ordinary people after all.

All of the authorities I've dealt with in the last 10 years have been friendly, helpful, professional and have in no way tried to stop me having access to firearms. Why should they if you appear to satisfy the criteria.

I see that your post is all about YOU - such things are all to common nowadays. YOU do not want / like "XYZ" ergo no one else should have it - is that correct?

Quarters wrote:I appear to have committed an awful crime.

I've disagreed with some people on the internet.

No, you haven't disagreed, you've displayed that your tone belies an approach that will see the destruction of the sport piece by piece as you, as an intergral part of the sport, are unable to give support or credibility to anything outside of your own narrow spectrum.

snayperskaya wrote:

Quarters wrote:Here are my comments on British gun laws:

The laws are fair.
The laws are sensible.
I have access to a wide variety of firearms for recreational use.
I don't want US style laws here.
I don't want firearms to be allowed for self-defence in this country.
All of the authorities I've dealt with in the last 10 years have been friendly, helpful, professional and have in no way tried to stop me having access to firearms.

Others may disagree or have different experiences.

On the Jo Cox shooting I find it hard to believe anybody could just make a "gun" at home that could fire more than one shoot.

I don't think the laws are fair or sensible, yes we do have access to a variety of firearms for recreational use but why should we not be able to have semi-auto centrefire rifles and handguns as per other European countries?.

Semi-auto shotgun with slug?....Yes......semi-auto rifle (over .22)......No, how is that sensible or fair?.

Got to agree, our laws are far from fair or sensible.

How does a semi .223 make me a danger but a 10 shot semi auto slug gun or a lever release .223 not?

snayperskaya wrote:As someones signature says "you can own a .55" Boys anti-tank rifle but not a 9mm handgun!" or something to that effect.

Sounds familiar.