Re-enactors upset by ban on taking UK spec deacts to France

[GeeRam]

My standing advice to members of my group is to apply for a FAC and acquire a live SMLE. I am not a fan of deactivated firearms, but they do have their uses for public displays and school presentations.

^This.

Back when I was involved in Living History events in the 90's, about 30-40% of the people in the groups I was in had FAC's, and certainley these days, encouragement/support of people getting a FAC and getting involved in live firing should be applauded. My group back then were even lucky enough to have the Army put on a live fire day on occasions as a thank you for the support to the veterans groups.

Our club has recently taken on a long term re-enactor who has now converted his theatrical FAC into a full FAC so he can actually shoot his P17 rather than just using blanks at events.

[HH1]

That is good to hear

[GeeRam]

Battle re-enactors don't use historically important "live" blades, axes spears etc.... they use blunt reproductions / replicas

The Medieval and Civil War ones that I know don't, the stuff they use is very much 'the real thing'...!

[HH1]

I sincerely hope that Mr Scott Knowles does not let the issue of his rifle spoil his trip to France and his plans to honour his relatives.

If I were to do something similar to honour my Great Uncle, I'm sure that I would face some real challenges...... I'd need to source and transport a much larger "gun" than a Lee Enfield Rifle...... My Great Uncle drove the lead tank across the bridge of Nijmegen, Holland in 1944 in an event known as "Operation Market Garden".... which also featured in the film "A Bridge too far"....



.... and my Grandfather drove Army trucks across North Africa ....

[GeeRam]

My Great Uncle drove the lead tank across the bridge of Nijmegen, Holland in 1944 in an event known as "Operation Market Garden".... which also featured in the film "A Bridge too far"....

Sergeant Peter Robinson of the Guards Armoured Div. I believe.

And, I used to know someone that owned a Sherman tank

[450 Martini]

I must say I'm in rather a unique position as I have a foot in both camps, I have been a dedicated full bore target shooter now for 12 years and at the same time I am heavily involved in living history on both as a hobby and at a professional level.
The main period I am interested in is Crimean war to the mid 1920's. Most of my efforts at the moment are directed towards the Great War centenary. I get involved in many different activities including "show and tell events" where members of the public are allowed to look at the kit and learn about life in the past. Battle events which are large scale events which can include aircraft and armoured support. Commemorative events which include memorial unveilings and grave rededications (my Zulu war group is into this in a big way). I am also sometimes invited to take part in film work.
Even though we get to take part in these interesting activities we like all legitimate users of firearms in this country are heavily constrained by the law. Fortunately for the periods I am involved in every standard infantry rifle is available to own on a section 1 or 2 certificate. Cartridge Revolvers and handguns we lost those as well in 1997. Machine guns and other interesting bits of kit are available on hire from the few section 5 armourers in the country but the hire fee is quite expensive.
Most re-enactor's who use a pre 1870's firearm uses a reproduction. Names like Parker-Hale, pedersoli, Uberti are Armi-sport are common here as they are in the black powder target shooting world. Some dedicated individuals enjoy using originals and those of us who re-enact the conflicts of the late 1860's and 1870's must use original snider and martini henry rifles.
For things that go BANG that were used in 20th century conflicts there are few options, Section 5 armourer provided real kit, Items held on Firearm certificate's (Lee Enfield's and mauser's etcetera) Propane/oxygen firing metal replicas. And purpose made "blank firers" which range in quality from dangerous to exact replica's of the real thing complete with 5 years at her majesty's pleasure (as was recently seen in the Paul Heddel case)

Regarding The Somme centenary in France, For the 90th anniversary commemorations there was no trouble in taking both deactivated and live firearms to France. Recently every government agency here and in France has been in competition to see how draconian they can be with each other. This include banning the transport of replica firearms through certain parts of France. So those denix replica's are of no use to us. The European firearms pass is our last option. I lost a cousin on the first of July 1916 (Fred Payton; 5th special Coy RE) and I feel on this trip and every time I put on the uniform I must be properly attired and equipped and behave in a manner befitting by way of tribute to him and all those who gave everything in the service of their nation.

[HH1]

Thank you for taking the time to write the above post 450 Martini... I have just been looking at your website and it is rather educational (I rather like Steam Engines and old vehicles too)

I was slightly confused by your statement in the post above, "I lost a cousin on the first of July 1916" ? You look rather young to have a cousin who died a hundred years ago, so I'm guessing you are talking about a Great, Great Cousin? Either way it is nice to think that he is remembered and honoured by your generation.

I'm doing a bit of research myself at the moment.... just waiting for my Sister to get back to me as she is the one who knows all our family history.... I had a number of Great Uncles, Uncles and a Grandfather who fought in the Second World War.... they tended to be Tank / Truck drivers, etc. My Dad was in the REME sometime in the 1950's.

[dave_303]

Battle re-enactors don't use historically important "live" blades, axes spears etc.... they use blunt reproductions / replicas

The Medieval and Civil War ones that I know don't, the stuff they use is very much 'the real thing'...!

Really? During my time with the English Civil War Society everything was blunted, the swords (pikeman's and musketeers tucks and officers swords) were all blunted with the point having the edge of roughly a 5p or 10p coin.
Pikes were rubber tipped. We did have steel pikes an half pikes but these were for show/parades only.

As someone else already said, the difference is we used to get in close (especially the unit I was with, as a Pikeman we went in with pikes levelled, not the belly rubbing you see others do) and frankly anything else would have been dangerous beyond all reason.

[HH1]

Battle re-enactors don't use historically important "live" blades, axes spears etc.... they use blunt reproductions / replicas

The Medieval and Civil War ones that I know don't, the stuff they use is very much 'the real thing'...!

Really? During my time with the English Civil War Society everything was blunted, the swords (pikeman's and musketeers tucks and officers swords) were all blunted with the point having the edge of roughly a 5p or 10p coin.
Pikes were rubber tipped. We did have steel pikes an half pikes but these were for show/parades only.

As someone else already said, the difference is we used to get in close (especially the unit I was with, as a Pikeman we went in with pikes levelled, not the belly rubbing you see others do) and frankly anything else would have been dangerous beyond all reason.

Thanks, Dave So..... if re-enactors can "make do" with Blunt versions of bladed weapons, surely re-enactors attending the commemorations in France can find suitable alternative Rifles?

[Sandgroper]

Thanks, Dave So..... if re-enactors can "make do" with Blunt versions of bladed weapons, surely re-enactors attending the commemorations in France can find suitable alternative Rifles?

Like I said in my previous post, in effect they have been deactivated and using a replica firearm would be like using a LARPing sword.