The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

This is the only issue. Guns for self defence in the UK is a discussion that will see us lose everything.

Doint forget some in the UK already carry firearms for self defense, and the world hasn't come to an end. As for the rest of the UK hand guns for self defense its not going to happen.

To have any relevance in a European debate, what I'd find interesting to know is the number of truly "criminal" gun crimes commited by the US CCW permit holders (which is probably the equivalent of our FAC in terms of access restriction) versus the number of legitimate use of the CCW firearms, ie : how many criminal actions commited by true legit firearms vs how many life were saved/rape avoided etc.

..

CCW permit is totally unlike our FAC: in the USA they do NOT have this silly "NEED" requirement. A Carry permit is just that: for those states that won't allow carry but will allow ownership and all the permutations. That methodology would be flawed froggy as it targets a small section of the public. many states do not require a ccw permit..more and more are allowing their people to exercise their LEGAL RIGHTS to own a firearm and self defence. From those i I have met CCW people in the US are every bit a slaw abiding as our FAC holders,: as with every thing there is always somebody.

How would you define crime committed by a CCW holder anyway? Some defensive shootings can go bad and the person defending is prosecuted because of the cirumstances....especially nowadays when the criminal is the victim! The prosecution could arise NOT from the shooting itself but from aspects of tactics and equipment used.

JR Lott is your man for facts and figures...as is the FBI.

BTW: HEADLINES YOU WILL NEVER SEE HERE:

http://www.gopusa.com/?p=9128?omhide=true

No one can tell me this was wrong, well done that man.

Amen,Chuck-IF it ever happens here,it will be swept under the carpet-or FAC holder will be charged big way...so,after Hilsborough verdict-is this the right time to do the same about tragedy witch leeds to the hand gun ban...?it was preventable,too...

Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.

W. B. Yeats

Budger,for the mole sake....and others-stop dreaming,Action Stations!!!

*Slams throttle wide open, sound klaxon*

"Full speed ahead, prepare to ram !"

Wow,do not forget about axle stands....

Buggrit !

30 years ago in the usa the right to carry in many states wasnt legal, since then, those states 30? that allow their citzens to carry NOT ONE has since banned that right ! which tells you all you need to know (ccw holders didnt go around killing innocent people)

and they are some eu countries that allow their citzens to carry as well for example Hungry !

joe: clapclap clapclap clapclap

Funny how those who would deny you the right to defend yourself lawfully with a firearm or anything else are all for the rights of the ciminal and not the victim? weird huh.