The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Christel do you think the FEO deviated from the law and it justifies a complaint, if so where?

There's always two sides to every story, perhaps there was reason for the FEO to question the use of the firearms. Perhaps he/she was over zealous or perhaps the two didn't get off to a good start and it went downhill from there. Interaction between people is a funny thing. You also have to ask was the club maintaining the shooting records they were required to do so!

ChrisB wrote:The conditions that clubs have to follow for their Home Office approval changed on the 2nd Feb. Worth noting that the club now has to keep a record of the exact firearm used, not just the caliber. Just working on a new Range Log..

Hi Chris, our club was not aware of this change. I've done a search and can't find anything on line - do you have a link perhaps?

Chapuis wrote:Other than possibly the question over what was said regarding rooks and crows it doesn't sound like the FEO was doing anything wrong other than being overly zealous.
Is he/she a new to the job or was there a reason for this?

I have to agree. Maybe its just a shock going from a 'slack' renewal to a by-the-book one?

ChrisB wrote:The conditions that clubs have to follow for their Home Office approval changed on the 2nd Feb. Worth noting that the club now has to keep a record of the exact firearm used, not just the caliber. Just working on a new Range Log..

Indeed. This is most annoying as whenever I'm shooting PSG/multi-gun comps at guest clubs I have to write out the full serial number of my gun(s) in the log. Thinking of making up some stickers with the numbers on to save time.

My own clubs get your serial numbers with each renewal and assign the gun a number (1-10 etc), so then you can just write a number or the make/model of the gun in the book rather than the serial number.

Chapuis wrote:Christel do you think the FEO deviated from the law and it justifies a complaint, if so where?

There's always two sides to every story, perhaps there was reason for the FEO to question the use of the firearms. Perhaps he/she was over zealous or perhaps the two didn't get off to a good start and it went downhill from there. Interaction between people is a funny thing. You also have to ask was the club maintaining the shooting records they were required to do so!

As I was not present I can't really comment however I do not think the FEO deviated from the law, just made it up a bit...a situation like Andy describes is really difficult to relate to. As you point out they could have had a bad start and it went downhill from there. The FEO could have been asked for a divorce that morning

I cannot emphasize enough to read the Firearms Act and also be a member of an organisation that has a legal department.
Do not address a situation with your guns blazing (no pun intended), ask politely. In most cases a situation can be solved amicably.

Regarding making it up a bit...that is essentially the problem we as shooters are facing. The law is not 100% clear.

With regard to changes to what is required of clubs by firearms departments a new one to me came up the other day that I was unfamiliar with is this.

One of the three constabularies that we regularly deal with informed us that any new applications for membership from anyone other than a SG or FAC holder must produce photographic proof of identity to support their application to the club. Has anyone come across this before?

I dont recall it saying anything like that in the changes document!

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ginal_.pdf

Yes, thats the only document I could find - it asks for details of the firearms used which is suitably vague as always!

FWIW - the changes to club approval were reverted back to what we had prior:

https://ukshootingnews.wordpress.com/20 ... a-changes/

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... bs#history

15 February 2016 12:50pm
Document reverted to previous version.
2 February 2016 12:18pm
Updated guidance leaflet published.
24 April 2012 1:00am
First published.

Not been able to attend current club yet due to range closure.
BUT
Previous clubs.
1. EVERY TIME you attended you had to write out FULL make/type/caliber/serial no for each gun used.
2. Each member had a log....here you itemised the info as above, in a table if say one to ten. On attendance just state what number from the log table. Saved LOTS of time!

ChrisB wrote:The conditions that clubs have to follow for their Home Office approval changed on the 2nd Feb. Worth noting that the club now has to keep a record of the exact firearm used, not just the caliber. Just working on a new Range Log..

Blackstuff wrote:Indeed. This is most annoying as whenever I'm shooting PSG/multi-gun comps at guest clubs I have to write out the full serial number of my gun(s) in the log. Thinking of making up some stickers with the numbers on to save time.

My own clubs get your serial numbers with each renewal and assign the gun a number (1-10 etc), so then you can just write a number or the make/model of the gun in the book rather than the serial number.

Your club, guest clubs and indeed your good self are doing more than is required prior to the recent change (which as I've shown in previous post has been reverted back to the version from 2012). I guess this is what we get when the laws / statutory instruments etc are so badly written - we get many different interpretations - you have been and currently only are required to do the following:

5. The attendance register should be kept for all shooting members of the club
although its principal use will be in relation to those members who hold firearm
certificates. This is to comply with Lord Cullen’s recommendation that shooters
should not have firearms on their certificates which are not used regularly. For this
reason, it will be necessary to record in the register the description of the firearm(s)
used as given in the member’s firearm certificate. All visiting shooters should be
logged in the same way. In the case of competition shoots between clubs, the
responsibility for recording the attendance of a team member will lie with the club
that the shooter represents. In the case of open competitions, the organising club will
record details of competitors. Clubs should retain their attendance records for a
minimum of 6 years

Note in the above - it says "description" well, where does one get that from? FAC? where it's "Makes Name, Type, Action, Identification No" ? pfah. To tidy that bit up they could just state:

"record the 'Makers Name, Type, Action' and omit serial number" (My suggestion, other clubs etc don't need to know my serial number so why provide it).

I do agree though - recording your firearms details once and thereafter using an "index" no to refer to each is a good idea.