Your vision of how to impliment CCW in the UK

[Blackstuff]

So two pages of responses containing only 5 actual responses, 3 of which missing the point, good work

Some are aready alowed to carry a PPW in the UK if you show need, no training required the last i heard.

The baseline would be the FAC application procedure.
- Mandatory minimum bi-monthly training/practice for the first two years before CCW issued, monthly training/practice thereafter.

Why would you set the bar any higher than it is for the police to carry firearms, two weeks basic training.

Mainly because selling the idea would require 'proof' that the civilians being 'let loose' on the street with guns were BETTER trained than both the police and military.

To rephrase - How would YOU sell the idea to the public/government that the idea could be viable, and counter the usual silly arguments about "only the police/military should be armed", "you'd get people shooting each other over parking spaces", "But then EVERYONE could get a gun and I hang about with some right idiots" etc etc.

- The baseline would be the FAC application procedure. This currently puts off 99% of the population alone, nevermind any further requirements - 'argument' that everyone and their mum would be armed nullified
- Mandatory minimum bi-monthly training/practice for the first two years before CCW issued, monthly training/practice thereafter. Would put off any 'wannabes' as you would actually have to train and perform
- Minimum age restriction of 21 unless maturity/responsibility could somehow be assessed and proven. (You could apply at 19 so that the two year training period would coincide with turning 21).I think most people are their most impulsive in their youth and it would be a good idea to make sure people carrying guns are as unimpulsive as possible
- Matched alcohol limit to driving limit.Alcohol and guns don't mix, plus see above
- No firearms in pubs, bars, nightclubs etc where the majority of people are drinking beyond the drink drive limit.As above
- Doormen/staff trained with firearms to provide security for establishment where CCW is not permitted. Possibly sourced from retiring service personnel.As mentioned in another thread, I don't mean give CURRENT bouncers/door men guns. There would be the 'normal' bouncers for the minor punch-ups etc, then a second layer of armed staff
- Card system to identify authority for CCW.Just to make it easy for interactions with police, for both the carrier and officers
- 5 years-life prison terms for misuse of CCW. e.g. displaying of gun to threaten without provocation etcThe stick to try to get people to behave and to also put off 'wannabes'

I would also add to the above bi-annual proficiency tests for marksmanship.

Same as South Africa circa 1989 would be fine with me.

Please elaborate

[Maggot]

So, out of interest girls, just how is a concealed carry handgun actually going to help you win the firefight that the average terrorist is more than capable of taking on?

If the MET have suddenly realised that they "May have to leave casualties while they deal with the firefight they have got themselves into" how are we on here going to negate that minor hurdle?


Just wondering?

[Blackstuff]

Unless I'd watched a Diehard marathon (well, the first 3 anyway), that morning, I doubt I would be engaging in a 'firefight', given the choice. There are so many variables that come into play its almost impossible to cover when/if you would return fire, IF you even got the chance.

Shooting from cover/elevated while the terrorists attention was elsewhere would be about as offensive as I would try personally, otherwise it would strictly in personal defence as I gave it the big legs. Something like this;

[Maggot]

Doubt?

Hells bells.....

Oh well, I wish you all the very best of British luck

[Blackstuff]

Another useful/on track post

So I'm presuming all of the other people on here who advocate CCW have never actually had any thoughts on how such a system could possibly be brought into the UK?

[BamBam]

Same as South Africa circa 1989 would be fine with me.

Please elaborate

Pistol license for reason of self-defence, requirements, travel late at night, carry cash, live on small holding/farm. Have a safe bolted to wall and a requirement for a clean background check, take anywhere from 1 week to 4 months.
Must be carried concealed, no open carry.
Cannot carry into government buildings, courts, hospitals, pubs or clubs where alcohol is served. Alcohol in blood limit the same as drunk driving.
Most buildings provide secure storage of firearms just outside, in the case of pubs and clubs they store them "safely" for you in exchange for a ticket... Like you gave them a coat! Only a mug hands in the whole firearm. The law actually said that the only places that your firearm may be stored where you would not be charged for negligence if it went missing was a police station, gun shop, your home safe and obviously on your person. As the barrel was the only listed pressure bearing part, take the barrel out before storing with anyone else.
No firearms to be left in vehicles under any circumstances.

When people say that one armed man cannot make a difference I always point them towards this dirty little piece of history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Jam ... h_massacre

[ordnance]

Mandatory minimum bi-monthly training/practice for the first two years before CCW issued, monthly training/practice thereafter. Would put off any 'wannabes' as you would actually have to train and perform

That would put most people off. as i said no training here no issues why add extra hurdles. As you pointed out there is more chance of pigs flying.

[ordnance]

Same as South Africa circa 1989 would be fine with me.

Please elaborate

Pistol license for reason of self-defence, requirements, travel late at night, carry cash, live on small holding/farm. Have a safe bolted to wall and a requirement for a clean background check, take anywhere from 1 week to 4 months.
Must be carried concealed, no open carry.
Cannot carry into government buildings, courts, hospitals, pubs or clubs where alcohol is served. Alcohol in blood limit the same as drunk driving.
Most buildings provide secure storage of firearms just outside, in the case of pubs and clubs they store them "safely" for you in exchange for a ticket... Like you gave them a coat! Only a mug hands in the whole firearm. The law actually said that the only places that your firearm may be stored where you would not be charged for negligence if it went missing was a police station, gun shop, your home safe and obviously on your person. As the barrel was the only listed pressure bearing part, take the barrel out before storing with anyone else.
No firearms to be left in vehicles under any circumstances.

When people say that one armed man cannot make a difference I always point them towards this dirty little piece of history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Jam ... h_massacre

Not alowed to shoot your girlfriend through the bathroom door.

[Chuck]

Blackstuff, maybe because it's been done to death and usually descends into a spate of personal attacks? There is MUCH more to it than weapon handling and bi monthly training is useless because that is what people would work to! Anyone with an aptitude can learn at a surprising pace - and of course training must not be the old "standing at a firing point club shooting routine" jeez, moving with firearms a the best of times gives RO's the skitters..and as for holstering a LOADED firearm, GOD FORBID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The UK is so anally retentive about such things it really would be a tall order to get it to happen..

- Mandatory minimum bi-monthly training/practice for the first two years before CCW issued, monthly training/practice thereafter.

Pointless - takes way too long and skills won't build.

It's a huge topic when you add in all the theory - theory that should help AVOID a confrontation. Plus of course kit and firearm selection choice of ammo, sights, flashlights etc etc..all part of carrying for self defence..Low light shooting, confined spaces etc etc..Then there's the phsychology of it all- could you, would you..emotional aftermath etc etc..ALLof that and more makes up defensive firearm training.

Worried about terrorists, well there's 5000 seemigly in the EU - so they must have counted them. What about the ones they do not know about.

Ex Military armed on doors - no way, totally wrong mindset and attitude. Also what makes them so special when plenty of law abiding civvies could be trained just as well, if not better? No disrespect to ex forces but being in the forces does not mean you know how to handle a firearm safely in a civilian environment does it? Throws cat in pigeons ...

Some are aready alowed to carry a PPW in the UK if you show need, no training required the last i heard.


Quote:
The baseline would be the FAC application procedure.
- Mandatory minimum bi-monthly training/practice for the first two years before CCW issued, monthly training/practice thereafter.


Why would you set the bar any higher than it is for the police to carry firearms, two weeks basic training.

And that's rub - BASIC! IT MUST be continuous and realistic.. Blatting away at non realistic targets and taking all day long to do it is a waste of time and effort.

As I said, ordinary people can and will train more than cops, either here or in the US. Even in the US some cops will only do the minimum - but rest assured there are some seriously skilled cops pounding a beat!

https://youtu.be/23Jn1N_N-mQ

[ordnance]

As I said, ordinary people can and will train more than cops, either here or in the US. Even in the US some cops will only do the minimum - but rest assured there are some seriously skilled cops pounding a beat!

Thats my point why would you make civilians train more than is required for the police to be carrying on the streets.

BASIC! IT MUST be continuous and realistic

They seem to mannage here with basic training, we are talking about police on the beat not the SAS or Delta force, no police force trains all its officers to that level.