The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

You know, it's actually not an arms race. Go buy a factory Savage for 1500 quid, add a bipod and a back bag (granted not cheap, but buy-once items), Sightron scope. Shoot.

Yes, I keep telling people that too .... but none are so deaf as those who don't want to hear. Over the last three years, I've successfully used a s/h Howa 308 Varminter + £115 Fox 8-32 target scope (Chinese ZOS - a bargain!) and Versa-Pod bi-pod I already owned, plus a .204 Savage LRPV rebarrelled to 223, both at shorter ranges.

For my next amazing trick :) I'll revert to the original 'Farky' concept, a Paramount TR rifle in very good nick bought sans iron sights but with an allegedly good and low round count Krieger barrel. Add £100 worth of scope rail and mounts, and while I'd be quite happy to use one of Brian Fox's scopes again, I'll treat this one to an 8-32X56 Nightforce NF BR I bought s/h years ago and an original (heavy) Fito-force Bigfoot bi-pod that Stuart Anselm (Osprey Rifles) had hanging about and sold to me at a good price, (more likely we did a swap for some Bergers). The light barrel - by FTR standards - may prove to be a handicap as it heats up, but we'll have to see - mirage shield a must. I have a mat and rear bag already of course, but even so this should prove to be capable to 1,000 in club matches for a bargain price by long-range match rifle standards. The bullet limitations with a TR rifle's 1-13 inch rifling twist and short-throat chamber don't bother me as I shoot 155s in my primary and more expensive FTR rifle most of the time anyway.

Hi All

NLRC : Bisley F-Class Team League

I am constructing a mailing list to ensure that all interested parties are actively informed about the league and related events.
If anyone wished to be on this list please mail me at:

fclass@nlrc.org

LECTURE SERIES
We also plan series of evening / all day lectures.
* Team Shooting and Coaching
* F-Class Reloading
* Wind Reading
* Plotting
* Firing Point / Mat Protocol
* Match temperament and thinking

There is also another announcement coming in next 4 weeks re NLRC facilities that would be of significant interest to F-Class shooters

Regards

TIM

I am happy to support your initiative fantastic idea. I am not a bisley club member but I am a member of NRA so would be looking to shoot as an individual.

Will email you on the address provided

Regards Russell

Mr_Logic wrote:You know, it's actually not an arms race. Go buy a factory Savage for 1500 quid, add a bipod and a back bag (granted not cheap, but buy-once items), Sightron scope. Shoot.

I shot the Euros with ammo loaded on a Chargemaster without any bullet prep etc. And in any case, those are prep stages, not expenditure. It's no more an arms race than TR; it's just that a lot of people shooting F-class, certainly F-open, have a lot of spare money and like to spend it on everything they can find!

Or think they will give them the edge because X, Y or Z uses one...You shooting the Savage in team GB then Tom?

Add a bipod....£200 ONO (one that works and does not need re fettling or replacing).

A back bag...Aim? £137....A fair buy though is you are prepared to pay £1500-3k on a rifle.

Sightron scope...glossed over that one....used mine cost £650. retail price £880. Great value, I have one on my £100 M67.

Over half the price of the savage entry level purpose built FTR rifle.

And not everyone gets the results first time with standard reloading gear.

There's an old saying. Buy twice cry twice. As a result newbie FTR shots will go to a shoot, see what's going on and buy a Dolphin....or something similar because they want to, as far as reasonably practical, dial out the variables.

And as long as the wind aint blowing they might do OK..

We see it with bullets....gotta use a berger...nothing else works. How much per 100 these days?

Its human nature and no matter what you tell people thay wont want to hear it.

I started out with an old M67 Kongsberg and finally shot a 48.2 with it at 300 before getting the Dolphin. Why? Because I kept getting told "you wont be compettitive with that" and I wasnt, even at a club level. It was exactly what an FTR rifle should have been though. It never had any potential until I topped it with the "Budget" sightron.

Who in their right mind gets into F Class to not compete? You can almost not avoid it.

I shot a 1 moa group with my old M67 yesterday with an old SLR sling for support. It will just about do that off a harris. its still a keeper, but at 900&1000 it was not going there with its 26" barrel against F class targets.

Then March happened.....a lot of my club changed from Sightron to March overnight....I am afraid I baulked at that given Russell Simmonds won the Worlds with a Sightron very similar to mine.

Now, when I shot Faff class, unless altzheimers/Gulf War Syndrome has set in, I seem to remember the grudging comment from just about everyone I spoke to (on the inside) being..."Its an arms race".

Its said to be the formula 1 of shooting Tom. Now if you wanted to compete in F1, would you be happy with a VW Beetle?

Anyhoo, great sport, enjoy.

Sorry it took me ages to actually reply.

The perception is that it is an arms race. It is fair to say that you need to spend a reasonable amount at a minimum to be competitive, but there are ways around the worst of it.

Bullets - 155HBC is better than the 155.5 for consistency, 60%of the price. It is not as easy to make work, however. It does for me though - half MOA elev spread with various loads.

Yes, I shoot the Savage for GB. It is perfectly accurate, but I don't get on with stock or trigger, which is to say I cock up too many shots because of them, which is why I am looking at a new rifle (paperwork with El Plod). But that's just fit - the rifle is good. With that 155HBC, I did 8 consecutive shots into the lower right of the V at 1000, so it can't be bad.

Bipod - Harris is OK, others are better.

scope - sightron would be my minimum but I am fussy about glass, to a point.

Either way, I don't think it is as silly as people think. A decent TR rifle isn't cheap either, though more are available s/h.

I actually think it is possible to be competitive with a factory Remington PSS, Harris bipod and Sightron scope. If someone would lend me those items I'd love to prove it.

What you can't do is use a 155 bullet, but that rifle will shoot a 168 Hybrid so happy days. Might have to have the throat lengthened a little but that's about it.

Mr_Logic wrote:Sorry it took me ages to actually reply.

The perception is that it is an arms race. It is fair to say that you need to spend a reasonable amount at a minimum to be competitive, but there are ways around the worst of it.

Bullets - 155HBC is better than the 155.5 for consistency, 60%of the price. It is not as easy to make work, however. It does for me though - half MOA elev spread with various loads.

Yes, I shoot the Savage for GB. It is perfectly accurate, but I don't get on with stock or trigger, which is to say I cock up too many shots because of them, which is why I am looking at a new rifle (paperwork with El Plod). But that's just fit - the rifle is good. With that 155HBC, I did 8 consecutive shots into the lower right of the V at 1000, so it can't be bad.

Bipod - Harris is OK, others are better.

scope - sightron would be my minimum but I am fussy about glass, to a point.

Either way, I don't think it is as silly as people think. A decent TR rifle isn't cheap either, though more are available s/h.

I actually think it is possible to be competitive with a factory Remington PSS, Harris bipod and Sightron scope. If someone would lend me those items I'd love to prove it.

What you can't do is use a 155 bullet, but that rifle will shoot a 168 Hybrid so happy days. Might have to have the throat lengthened a little but that's about it.

Ok Tom well good luck either way mate. I am far happier grunting in the mud and messing with slings....far more exuses for missing with CSR etc

My point is that with most people (you are a tight wad, other shooting types are available) what they see is what they percieve they need, but you know what I mean. The scores in my lot did not suddenly jump when they all bought March scopes....nice though they are.

I really missed connecting with the rifle. I hate to say it but I may have been better off with the bondage crew, but either way F was fun but was not made for me or vise versa I am afraid. It taught me a lot about load dev though.

Funny what you say about the HBCs. My old Kongsberg loves them as did the Dolphin, I must just be lucky I guess.

Did a lovely job on a Fig14 with the thing a week or two ago. 5 rounds, 2 holes, 25mm apart (C-C) and right on the bridge of its nose.....with a £100 rifle and an old SLR sling...OK, the sightron was £880 but the rifle deserved it and it was woudn down to 16x before I threw up!!

It will get dragged to the odd DRM shoot (with a sling) just for fun....as long as I dont get called "mad" or "Eccentric" again...I mean, what is wrong with shooting F class with a No4???? I enjoyed it even if the markers had to get their fingers out and use both black and white patches...Lazy gits!!

Fossil class....stag on girls clapclap

Never shoot with anything that requires a Pickfords van to get to the firing point.....I carried less junk with Blowpipe/Javelin

(seriously, good luck to the GB lot...well.....no...nooo....just good luck...right? ) Exe Gerald 2

Yes, I shoot the Savage for GB. It is perfectly accurate, but I don't get on with stock or trigger, which is to say I cock up too many shots because of them, which is why I am looking at a new rifle (paperwork with El Plod). But that's just fit - the rifle is good. With that 155HBC, I did 8 consecutive shots into the lower right of the V at 1000, so it can't be bad. [Mr_Logic]

Dolphin does its stocks for the Savage PTA. Throw in a DIY 'Araldite skim-bed' for the price of 40 minutes work and a few quid and it works even better. Savage triggers? You like them or not as the case may be. The key to making them work well and reliably is to avoid trying to adjust the pull weight too low. Most come from the factory set at 12-ounces and that usually works fine for thousands of rounds.

Laurie, I have the Dolphin stock. It's OK, but I'm not really a fan - a decent laminate is much better - I find the Dolphin too thin, and I prefer thumb-up, too. As for the trigger, well the irony is that in the Dolphin the one Savage I have with the accutrigger is not too bad! But it's not a Jewel...

Mr_Logic wrote:Laurie, I have the Dolphin stock. It's OK, but I'm not really a fan - a decent laminate is much better - I find the Dolphin too thin, and I prefer thumb-up, too. As for the trigger, well the irony is that in the Dolphin the one Savage I have with the accutrigger is not too bad! But it's not a Jewel...

You know my feelings on this mate as discussed. Personally I would go laminate if I ever turned again, it cant really play up as long as its bedded right although I guess it might warp.

Jewel....superb......

Gisselle in an AR....better

I've virtually finished putting together my own little sub £500 Ftr set up based on a parker hale TX1200. I'm never going to compete with the top guys but I don't care I just want to shoot and have fun! As soon as I'm fit to get back on the firing point I shall do some load dev and hopefully do some fclass meets or something later on in the year :)