The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Dougan wrote:

Blackstuff wrote:Oh i've no doubt this is more politically than environmentally motivated

No it is environmentally motivated...it's just that it's not hard to convince some members of Government against shooters.

If the environmental evidence isn't there (and i've been LEAD to believe its sketchy at best), then it must be more politically motivated than environmentally, although obviously if you have an inherent dislike for something, the skimpiest of evidence can be used to motivate you and you can still claim that you're doing it for another reason other than your own prejudices.

Dougan wrote:As far as I'm aware environmentalists aren't looking to spoil shooting sports (you'd be amazed how many 'environmentalists' shoot), but are genuinely trying to protect the type of habitats that quite frankly need protecting....

clapclap Very good!

Yes i would, all of the 'environmentalists' i've ever encountered have a Disney education of the natural world and would rather stab you in the face than listen to any reasoned opposing opinion to theirs

Dougan wrote: ...I'm not against wild-fouling, but I don't see why they shouldn't have to use non-toxic shot...many of the best shooting areas are vulnerable environments...also, while I do sympathise about the cost of ammo wild-foulers and hunters don't need (unless they're greedy or a crap shot) to use as much ammo as a sports shooter.

The trouble is, this isn't just about wild-fowling (i think wild-fouling is something bears do in the woods ) its about banning lead in ALL environments which 'they' are using flimsy evidence to support.

Dougan wrote: The best thing for everyone, shooters and environmentalists, would be to get the price of a decent alternative shot down to a reasonable price...

On that at least we can agree

"Green" politics.... Every time you find a "green scrunger" give him a large mug of STFU!

Dougan wrote:As far as I'm aware environmentalists aren't looking to spoil shooting sports (you'd be amazed how many 'environmentalists' shoot), but are genuinely trying to protect the type of habitats that quite frankly need protecting...

Are these your "Environmentalists"?
http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/balacl ... hugs-42510

Keep in mind how much trouble RoHS caused the electronics industry too.

Conservationists and environmentalists are different animals....

zanes wrote:Being purely selfish, for slugs the non-lead alternative of choice (of Brenneke) seems to be tin. Lets see how much that is.

LME price for lead- $1834/tonne
LME price for tin- $18220/tonne

Knock a third off the price as their tin slugs are only 19gram. Add a lot because this talk of "increased demand" is pretty much total bo...cks at an international level if we're the only country to ban.

So it's not at all possible that all those UK manufacturers of shotgun cartridges that make and sell millions of shotgun cartridges in their own country, couldn't possibly find a way of replacing Lead with something else without it being 10x the cost?

If shooting is really worth 2 billion to the economy every year (according to BASC) that's a pretty sizable industry we're expecting to disappear up it's own arse when / if Lead is banned.

By all means feel agreieved by this as I do but I'm fed up of the hyperbole around death of this that and the other based on not much more than feck all info.

F**k me, I best give all me guns up right now, we're doomed.

Demonic69 wrote:

Dougan wrote:As far as I'm aware environmentalists aren't looking to spoil shooting sports (you'd be amazed how many 'environmentalists' shoot), but are genuinely trying to protect the type of habitats that quite frankly need protecting...

Are these your "Environmentalists"?
http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/balacl ... hugs-42510

Definitely not - They're animal rights campaigners...and at the extreme end of it.

How about http://basc.org.uk/ ...aren't their conservation team environmentalists?

Sim G wrote:Effing ecologists..... Boil my pi$$, they do...!!!

So you have no interest in the environment at all then? You wouldn't be bothered if our remaining countryside was developed and our water courses were totally polluted by industry? You're not bothered that your grandchildren won't be able to enjoy the countryside in the same way you could as a kid?

It's the ecologists who provide the data and information so that governments and local authorities can make environmental policy...without them and the policies they help shape who would protect the environment?

Sim G wrote:Conservationists and environmentalists are different animals....

How's that then? I'm struggling to think of an example where the two don't overlap.

Conservationist - I'll burn this tree for fuel today, but plant that tree so I have fuel in a few years. I'll shoot and eat this animal, at this time of year, to protect breeding and strengthen gene pool, so I'm able to shoot and eat it's off spring in years to come.

Ecologist - it's all man's fault! Trees have souls, only eat nut kernels because fruit have feelings! Wear grass and never turn a light on!!!

It would be interesting to see how much wild life is damaged by lead, particularly after the surface has oxidised, compared to how many wild birds wind turbines have killed....