The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/04 ... nitiative/

Thing wot I wrote about this.

Regarding Durham and the use of handloaded ammunition within range limits.

It was the club I am chairman of that was the issue in discussion.

Another great Durham cock up from beginning to end.

Initially Durham advised another licensing authority, who was looking at granting an FAC to a new full member of ours, that we were only a small bore club and therefore membership of our club was not good reason to possess full bore rfiles.

After doing this they then contacted some Durham FAC holders some of whom were members of our club saying that they had to show where they were using their fullbore firearms and if it was only at our club then they had to dispose of them or lodge them with a dealer, interestingly they had to lodge their firearms but weren't asked to put their FACs in for amendment. One member had a Winchester underlever in 30/30 calibre but they didn't deem that to be fullbore enough for him to have to lodge it so he was allowed to keep that and shoot it on our range. wtfwtf

I obviously wrote to them pointing out that we were a fullbore club sending along our Home Office Certificate which clearly states we are a Full bore, Small bore and Muzzle Loading club.

After that there was around 5 months silence from Durham whilst they went on a fishing expedition to find something to back up there out of nowhere claim.

During this period a circular came out from the NSRA about the use of handloaded ammunition on indoor ranges saying that unless the club could ensure that the ammunition used was within the range limits then their insurance wouldn't cover it, our secretary contacted the NSRA and told them our verification process for velocity and muzzle energy and was told by the NSRA that this was fine.

Time passed and even although there was phone contact 'tween the club and Durham we still have no formal reply to our letter, at one point the numpty FLO who started all this was almost pleading with our secretary for us to book a MoD range so that all this would go away.

Eventually we got a letter from Durham saying that our insurance didn't cover us and that was why we couldn't use handloaded ammunition on the range.

I duly contacted the NSRA again and this time was met by a most unhelpful greeting saying that my club was wasting more of their time than anything else and that in spite of the earlier letter from them the situation re insurance was that the NSRA insurance only covers shooters who are shooting a discipline approved and recognised by a National Governing body and as there was no recognised discipline for handloaded ammunition it wasn't covered. I probed a bit further and basically unless you are shooting a recognised course of fire on the appropriate targets then the NSRA insurance won't cover you. wtfwtf

Next onto the NRA, yes what are you shooting at we were asked, targets I said, you are covered then they said. I explained about the fullbore issue with Durham and just to be double safe the NRA put us on to their insurance broker with whom we shared or processes and procedures just to make sure that they were covered. Yes came back the answer our insurance covers your activities, job done, thank you NRA.

Guess which National body this club won't be renewing their membership with.

If what the NSRA told me is true, I suspect that they just didn't want to have to deal with the issue, then all clubs who use the NSRA insurance might want to check that their activities, like 22 BR or just plain plinking at targets for example, which have no governing bodies, are covered by the NSRA insurance.

The validity of our NRA insurance was then communicated to Durham FL who a few weeks later sent us a letter saying that all was well and that shooting full bore at our club was good reason and all those members who had to hand their firearms could have them back. They only bothered to notify one FAC holder of their back down the rest had to find out on the grapevine.

Seems to me that they should have spoken to the full bore National organisation for a full bore issue but then maybe they thought they wouldn't give them the answer they were obviously looking for after making a totally off the top of their head not founded on any fact decision. They were obviously using the ACPO to try and get support for their unsubstantiated position and were put in their place at the meeting.

dodgyrog wrote: 1. Sounds like c**p to me. Do you not test and approve your shooters during their probationary period.
2. High handed committee perhaps?

1. Yes, to a very high standard

2. No, just one that is aware that reloading mistakes can and do happen

Racalman wrote:
2. No, just one that is aware that reloading mistakes can and do happen

So you have no reloaded ammunition used on your range?

Not that he knows of :lol:

Racalman wrote:

dodgyrog wrote: 1. Sounds like c**p to me. Do you not test and approve your shooters during their probationary period.
2. High handed committee perhaps?

1. Yes, to a very high standard

2. No, just one that is aware that reloading mistakes can and do happen

There's a way of being safe and permitting reloaded ammunition and being insured, it's all about education and process.

But like a lot of clubs I suspect it got put in the "too hard to do" box. Case in point, my club and 17HMR :-(

I shoot at two indoor ranges,

Club 1, All centrefire (pistol and rifle) loads must be chronographed, a written record showing it's compliance with range limits made and signed off by an appropriate club official before it can be used. Any change in bullet type, powder etc. and the load must be re-certified before it can be used.

Club 2, Anything that appears to be below range limits as long as it's not using a jacketed bullet, no chronograph check or records kept

Sim G wrote:

Racalman wrote:
2. No, just one that is aware that reloading mistakes can and do happen

So you have no reloaded ammunition used on your range?

Reloaded is permitted, downloaded is not. I'd like to think that our members respect the rules.

In any case, in addition to our indoor range we shoot fullbore on MoD ranges every month so there's little cause for complaint.

Out of curiosity how do you define the difference between downloaded and handloaded?

dromia wrote:Out of curiosity how do you define the difference between downloaded and handloaded?

Downloaded rounds have considerably reduced powder weights to reduce the muzzle velocity, as opposed to normal loads that would be used on an outdoor range.

The issue only arises with people who want us to change our range orders to allow the use of fullbore rifles indoors.