Ammunition prices.....

[targetman]

Steve E....I take all you say, but you have to admit that prices of ammunition and competitive rifles have risen to such an extent that the sport has become very costly for the average person.

I know that all sports activities seem to be expensive now, I gave up on motor sport 30+ years ago for the same reason.

The shooter on a limited budget is really disadvantaged.

I have heard the argument that not allowing handloads makes for a 'level playing field'....but that is nonsense...I, like many, cannot afford to spend vast sums of money on whatever the latest must have rifle is or spend a small fortune on RUAG ammunition to practice. So, it cannot be considered a level playing field. To achieve anything like that everybody competing would have to use the same standard rifle and ammunition. Which would be a bit like telling all atheletes that they must eat the same food.

I am not blaming the NRA at all in this...just saying how I see it. I appreciate that market forces dictate the price of ammunition and that the real enthusiast will always want the best equipment, but I do feel that some (well quite a lot) are being put off competing.

[rox]

I, like many, cannot afford to spend vast sums of money on whatever the latest must have rifle is or spend a small fortune on RUAG ammunition to practice.

I don't think anyone needs to spend a fortune on RUAG to practice. My 39p handloads are equal or slightly better in consistency and near identical in wind deflection, plus I enjoy making them. In training for the last really major event in which I competed, I fired about 4,500 rounds in the year, the vast majority of them handloads. There is no way I would do that with commercial ammo. Last Friday morning alone I fired 116 rounds, and I certainly wouldn't do that at commercial ammo prices. I rarely if ever see any successful TR shooters changing rifle on the bases of the latest 'must have'. Most are happiest using what they have succeeded with for years. My rifles are mid-to-late 80s era.

It is also being assumed that the commercial sale price is how the ammo component of the entry fees are costed - that certainly hasn't been the case in the past.

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[Rburro2]

Can you not use handloads for the methuan then?

Wher did you get that idea from?

Was having a mad moment ignore

[targetman]

Rox....I agree with you....I use almost exclusively handloads and have done for 30+ years. It took myself and a couple of other members ages to convince our club to allow handloads in club competitions, now virtually everyone uses handloads.

As for equipment, I agree again, I have never gone for the latest thing, often to the chagrin of the club captain....

My handloads have always been to the same recipe not even tailored to the rifle. One thing is certain, despite all the efforts of some handloaders, or those buying the most expensive commercial ammo, being able to judge the conditions and having confidence in your own abilities is what really counts .

Personally I have never gone for the latest 'thing'.....rather the opposite. I am unlikely to change at my stage in life but I do think that attracting new shooters to compete is handicaped by cost.....

[rox]

Rox....I agree with you....I use almost exclusively handloads and have done for 30+ years. It took myself and a couple of other members ages to convince our club to allow handloads in club competitions, now virtually everyone uses handloads.

Fortunately the trend has been widespread recently. Only 3 or 4 years ago the Welsh Open was one of the few moderate-sized TR meetings that allowed handloads. In the last couple of years the Easter Meeting and even the North London Championships (which has always staunchly followed the format of the Imperial) have succumbed. I'm not convinced that it would be 'right' for the Imperial to convert, but I don't think the NRA can avoid the change in the landscape that has occurred and the pressure to reduce entry costs, so if a batch production can't be found at a more competitive cost it may be the only option. Of course we are now all used to quality commercial grade fodder, so there's no going back to the mil surp option.
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[FredB]

Some of us just don't understand why factory ammo is specified. Most of my rifles are in obsolete calibres and so there is no factory ammo: if there was, I wouldn't buy it. Handloading is a malor part of the hobby and i wouldn't be without it.
As a pistol shooter, I reckon that I fired almost 100,000 rounds of .357 calibre ammo over three decades. I still have never fired a factory round of .357.
Fred

[Sim G]

More to the point Fred, it amazes me how many shooters do NOT reload their own ammo....!!

[Laurie]

[/quote]This year the squad is reduced to approx 60 members, still shooting 51 rounds a day. Each squad member has to load their own ammunition to a given specification in a specific Bisley Clubhouse that has a dedicated loading room. It is a logistical nightmare but is doable. Just for the next two training sessions 17160 rounds of ammunition have to be loaded and that is just for the Palma squad. The Under 25s need about half that amount and that all have to load it themselves to keep the cost down. If we were using RUAG, i suspect that both the Palma and the Under 25s would have a lot less people looking to represent GB at the highest level. I know that i would not be able to afford it.[/quote]

Impressive! I can just imagine the logistics difficulties involved, but an excellent solution. When Jane Messer and Paul Kent temporarily defected from TR to coach the GB F/TR team for Raton last year, team members still loaded their own ammo, but were restricted to 155s to give the poor coaches a chance of getting some consistency. Even so, Paul said he would make allowances for different shooters' ammo windage requirements, a good quarter-MOA between individuals. Most people were using the 155.5 Berger, but there were significant variations in MVs between team members' set-ups.

[phaedra1106]

In comparison my son and myself use nowhere near as much ammunition (up here in The North we're lucky if we get 10 full bore range outings a year) but even so there's no way we'd be able shoot at £1 a round, it would be £100 an outing just for ammunition.

Our hand loaded .308 ammunition uses RWS once fired cases, 42gr of N140 and 168gr Nosler CC bullets, works out at 33p per round (using the RWS no more than 5 times)

[rox]

Our hand loaded .308 ammunition uses RWS once fired cases, 42gr of N140 and 168gr Nosler CC bullets, works out at 33p per round (using the RWS no more than 5 times)

Do you use a primer, or leave it out so you can reuse the whole round? tongueout

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