The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Sandgroper wrote:

Blu wrote:Sandgroper,

Um...not in Australia and AFAIK NZ.

Nor in the US or Canada.

Blu

I thought so, but wasn't 100% sure. Cheers.

Grant, speaking for Michigan only as I'm not sure which other States allow it, it's also legal to hunt with crossbows here as well. To make it a little fairer for the deer though, one has to place an apple on the deer's head before one can shoot it. tongueout

Blu

ordnance wrote:

I believe a well placed arrow resultgs in a more humane kill than a Bullet.

You putting a 35mm projectile, with a weight of circa 500 grains through the vitals. resulting in the animal bleeding out much faster than with a bullet.

I will have to disagree a high velocity rifle bullet will do a lot more damage and kill quicker that a arrow.

The right tools for the job is the key - if you used a high velocity varmint round against deer it will be less humane than a hunting arrow properly placed.

No hunting tool is perfect. Its ability to provide a clean, humane kill depends on the prey, the conditions, the tool and the user.

Blu wrote: Grant, speaking for Michigan only as I'm not sure which other States allow it, it's also legal to hunt with crossbows here as well. To make it a little fairer for the deer though, one has to place an apple on the deer's head before one can shoot it. tongueout

Blu

Sounds like a challenge! clapclap

The right tools for the job is the key - if you used a high velocity varmint round against deer it will be less humane than a hunting arrow properly placed.

No hunting tool is perfect. Its ability to provide a clean, humane kill depends on the prey, the conditions, the tool and the user

True but there is a minimum caliber and muzzle energy required to shoot deer in the UK.

ordnance wrote:

The right tools for the job is the key - if you used a high velocity varmint round against deer it will be less humane than a hunting arrow properly placed.

No hunting tool is perfect. Its ability to provide a clean, humane kill depends on the prey, the conditions, the tool and the user

True but there is a minimum caliber and muzzle energy required to shoot deer in the UK.

True, but they are not perfect or is there any requirement for a minimum shotgun shot size for game - just recommendation. Plus, the requirements are different throughout the UK. Scotland does not have a minimum calibre but does have a minimum velocity, bullet weight and muzzle energy. I could use my 45-70 in E&W but not in Scotland or I could use my 223 for Roe in Scotland but not in E&W.

A minimum calibre and muzzle energy (as per E&W and NI) does not prevent someone from using a lightweight varmint bullet against deer - not wise or humane.

In any case bullets and arrows primary method of killing is different, so talking about minimum muzzle energies is really comparing apples and oranges.

There is also nothing in law to say that you need to have any sort of "hunter education" before shooting game or pest control in the UK - potentially not very humane.

Finally, we are not going to agree (no matter what the other person says) so make your rebuttal, if you wish, and we'll leave it at that.

Combo wrote:I believe a well placed arrow resultgs in a more humane kill than a Bullet.

You putting a 35mm projectile, with a weight of circa 500 grains through the vitals. resulting in the animal bleeding out much faster than with a bullet.

Not always the case unfortunately. I always kept my opinion to myself as I had zero experience bow hunting. However I then experienced a hunt using a bear stand. I must admit that I was already disenchanted with the whole barrel filled with sugary food as bait. But it really turned unpleasant when a black bear appeared and another took it with a compound bow. The bear crashed off into the undergrowth, collapsed and began howling in pain. It took approx 10mins for the bear to die any yet the outfitter thought it a well placed hit.

I refuse to help ban any hunter or shooters sport unless I find it truly cruel. This rule was sorely tested. Based on this experience, bow hunting for large powerful animals is personally distasteful. My own personal opinion only.

I have no experience with hunting bears but that sort of story really makes my blood boil.

In my opinion it was a poorly placed shot, from my experience a properly placed shot results in the animal bleeding out very quickly, which wasn't what you observed. He should have been out of his stand and following up to finish the job. I was taught to follow up as soon as you hit the animal to get on their blood trail as quickly as possible as well as to make sure it was a good hit.

I personally dislike tree stands and baiting animals in - IMO if you hunt with a bow, your aim is to set your field craft against the animal you're hunting so to get as close as possible, which means 9/10 times you lose and don't take a shot.

Mate, I was more than happy to follow it up and dispatch it with the outfitters rifle but he flatly refused. His statement was " you dont go down with a wounded bear." I understood the reasoning but it didn't make the wait or the howling easier to endure. I guess for me part of the shock was being unfamiliar with bears; I had no idea it would be so loud and 'verbal' and taking so long to die.