The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Whoa, primates, Whoa !

Why SHOULDN'T it be safe to leave valuables (or guns) in a steel box (that is what a car is) ? The real culprits here are the THIEVES, and secondarily, the police whose duty it is to protect us from such vagabonds and ne'er do wells !

Let's not castigate the gun owner: we should aspire to a society where the criminal is in the dock, not the victim...

If the car is parked up and I am away I try to be in a position where I can see it at all times however that is seldom possible.

I have had to leave my rifles in the car in the past, I carry the bolt(s) with me and keep the rifles covered. I also have a long cable lock however it only keeps the rifles together through the trigger guards (It will not fit through the magazine wells) and is not suited to be attached directly to the car so really all I have done is keep the rifles nicely bundled together for the would be opportunist.

I suppose the alternative is not stray from the car...

We can understand the concept of being responsible and taking precautions, but let us be honest ooman: the fault lies with the thief !

meles meles wrote:We can understand the concept of being responsible and taking precautions, but let us be honest ooman: the fault lies with the thief !

When will we get real in the UK and hold people responsible for their actions, rather than blame ourselves for 'causing' them to commit crime.

About 3 years ago several guns were stolen from a car parked in a hotel car park.
This is a copy of the email circulated after the case went to court.

"In case you don’t know L was the guy who had his rifles nicked out of a car (Escort Estate) parked in a hotel car park near Derby overnight last July. 5 guns were taken, 3 being Lever Actions that had had their finger levers removed & two were 10/22s that were intact. Magazines & ammo had been taken into the hotel. All were later recovered albeit 3 have been destroyed due to their condition after having been dumped.

L & his brother’s FAC’s were duly revoked by Thames Valley Police & today was the hearing for their appeal. TVP considered that the security arrangements taken were inadequate & this made L & his brother unable to possess a firearm without being a danger to the public or peace.

Fortunately L is an individual NRA member & their legal insurance paid for experienced legal counsel & a barrister. Faced with such opposition & being able to field 4 character witnesses (myself being one), TVP backed off & an out of court deal was done, the two guys signed an undertaking to take more care in future, paid a 4 figure sum to offset TVPs costs & will get their FACs back within 14 days.

In my opinion several lessons come out of this:-

For hatchback / estate cars just concealing firearms is not enough, they either need to be removed to a secure place or fixed into the vehicle in some way particularly if they are going to be left for any time, remove working parts if at all possible & remove access to ammunition.
If you are not a member of the NRA or similar organisation with legal cover you really need to be, the costs would have been prohibitive for L otherwise.
Take great care where you stay & if the worst happens keep your head & play the legal game sensibly. "

End of quote.

Tony

mag41uk wrote: paid a 4 figure sum to offset TVPs costs

Tony

That's scandalous ! The police are there to serve us, not the other way round ! If they were doing their job properly in the first instance the theft should not have occurred !

True, however, there is a procedural rule that states that costs are not recoverable in firearms actions against the police unless they have behaved grossly inappropriately (I paraphrase - it's late). If you think this is wrong, may I suggest you research the facts (all available online) and having arrived at an independent opinion write to your MP and all the Party leaders about it.

Iain
Not at work at all

meles meles wrote:We can understand the concept of being responsible and taking precautions, but let us be honest ooman: the fault lies with the thief !

Agreed

meles meles wrote:

mag41uk wrote: paid a 4 figure sum to offset TVPs costs

Tony

That's scandalous ! The police are there to serve us, not the other way round ! If they were doing their job properly in the first instance the theft should not have occurred !

About 20 years ago I worked in a posh hotel on the outskirts of Derby and every weekend we would have 3-4 cars stolen and another 12-14 broken into, we ended up with having to provide 24 hr security to stop it as the police were not interested, they even stopped coming out to us when the thefts were reported and just gave out crime numbers, at the end of the day it wouldn't have taken much for them to catch the theives as they could of put surveillance on the hotel car parks over a weekend and caught them.

Thefts from vehicles seem to be low priority in my experience as over the years I have had 4 break ins on my vehicles and not once did SOCO come out to dust for prints or the likes.

Going back to the original post, looking at the report for finding the weapons it would appear to be opportunist thieves due to them setting fire to the guns in a wheely bin.

Knowing that area of Sunderland, then it is very likely to be opportunists who have seen "something" on show, or a car they know they can be into easily in order to get something which may or may not have had value. Once they realised exactly what they had their hands on they probably soiled themselves (polite version) and panicked, burning the evidence. Had it been an iPad and a laptop, then they would have flogged it down the local pub for a tidy profit.