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hitchphil wrote:There is a shoot held annually that is a classic iron sight service rifle event, Rubins, Mausers, Mosies & Enfields etc etc - dont know when it is but will find out.

Isn't that the Trafalgar?

On the basis that I don't own a tacticool rifle I'm not going to enter the modern/optics/etc class, but it sounds like I might have a chance of winning the No.4 class!

I have to say I'm with lapua338, it's not really service rifle at all as none of the rifles were ever issued. Perhaps we should rename it Tacticool Rifle... :55:

Or BUTS/TNHR organise a No4/SMLE/Mosin etc only shoot? (with & without bayonets with a final charge to the :cheers: bar) & we call it Classic Service Rifle?

Or we could take a Christel-ism and call it SOW Rifle? :lol:

Gaz sed - Isn't that the Trafalgar?

Dont think so - its in spring I think? I remember (poss when I was doing the purples?) there was a big crowd of people in period dress / uniform with No4s, SMLE, longLee, Rubins etc etc shooting similar distances alongside - one of the guys borrowed my 'controversial' Spitfire Ale T shirt to wear at the prize giving to wind up the Mauser guys? who I think were from Germany? ............................. He was brave ....... I had worn it for 2 'Bisley' days :lol:

CSR & PR are completely different animals shot to different rules, courses of fire and leagues , although you generally find that CSR competitors shoot both.

CSR COF are based upon existing military matches from UK and abroad.

As far as the equipment goes , any centre fire rifle with a magazine of 10 rounds can be used. A straight pull AR is ideal for this.


Its great fun , if you haven't experienced it , you're missing out on some of the best shooting available to us over here. We even have regular teams from Denmark and France taking part , which puts a lot of UK plinkers to shame :-)

The NRA discipline is called Civilian Service Rifle / Practical Rifle. It has four subdivisions - Historic Enfield, Any Iron, Service Optic, Practical Optic.

There is another NRA Discipline called Service Rifle.

NRA rules 149, 154 and 389 refer.

Iain
Secretary to the Shooting Committee

lapua338 wrote:That's the point... from a purists point of view the current batch of Section 1 AR-type, 30M1 carbine, SLR/FAL, Steyr AUG straight-pull rifles are not and never have been a service rifle.

They're a fraud, sham, imposter of a rifle and are simply a three-dimensional representation of the genuine article. In my opinion these rifles debase the concept of Service Rifle.

I reiterate, if it's not shot with a "Service Rifle" and involves practical rifle skills, accurate range estimation, marksmanship, etc, then should it be called Practical Rifle?

I suppose it's all down to semantics and let's agree to disagree.

Actually lets not all agree to disagree, lets just agree that you're completely wrong.
Lets all agree though that you have a very narrow minded view of all this and are only posting in this thread to pick holes in it, am I correct?

I'm Bradders and I approve of this post.

I help to organise these events and I've also had a part in setting them up the way they are and am also following on from what Pete Bloom created back in 1998 when this all started.
We have class rules that you have chosen to ignore. These were only settled on after endless discussions, and now for the most part everyone's happy.
If you think they are a "sham" then why don't you go and have a word with Theresa May and Dave Cameron!

I see from your profile that you're not too far from Bisley. What do you do when you go there?
Plink from the 600yd line?
Why not pop along on the 6th Jan and tell everyone they they and their equipment are frauds and impostors?
Or do you wish to carry on hiding behind your "well informed" internet tough guy persona?

Most of our matches are sell outs and there'll be around 50 entrants on the 6th, so you can whole heartedly voice your opinion to our fraudulent masses.
You an even bring Ovenpaa with you, and he can even bring his clubmate with the Lantac rifle........coz I'm sure most of us would love to see one of these mythical beasts :lol:

Gaz, if you wish to enter and have the relevant SSC, There's plenty of guns and ammo to be borrowed, just drop me a line.

Bradders

Clearly, you did not grasp mentally my previous posts.

It was the meaning of the term "Civilian" Service Rifle that we were discussing and perhaps the particular discipline shot with modern straight-pull rifles (not an "as-issued" rifle) would be best served redefined as something else entirely, i.e., "Tactical" Rifle or something appropriate as others have also suggested.

Sorry, but I refuse to trade insults with you so it would appear that our discussion is at an end.

I've been shooting PR matches for about 10 years, and have shot several CSR matches as the chance permits (long run down to sunny Bisley)...

I've shot CSR with both my M4 (+ACOG) and full length AR15 (LRT x20), each of which is shot in a different class... the courses of fire are challenging and a test for any standard of shooter...

Bradders and his crew run a very tight ship and I would suggest that anyone wishing to "have a bash" might like to go along and watch before passing further comments on this discipline...

"Don't knock it till you've tried it!"

lapua338 wrote:Clearly, you did not grasp mentally my previous posts.

It was the meaning of the term "Civilian" Service Rifle that we were discussing and perhaps the particular discipline shot with modern straight-pull rifles (not an "as-issued" rifle) would be best served redefined as something else entirely, i.e., "Tactical" Rifle or something appropriate as others have also suggested.

Sorry, but I refuse to trade insults with you so it would appear that our discussion is at an end.

Well I don't see how it is, especially given the fact that we are nearly all 'Civilians' and shoot legally owned 'Civilian" firearms.
As you are obviously completely unaware (having never attended a match) yet are so educated on the matter that you can force your opinions on everyone else, you will have completely missed the fact that we lowly 'Civilians' did in fact shoot alongside real Army and other Services people up until about 4 years ago in the CENTSAM meeting (at bisley, you know, that place where you go a'plinkin'), and were administered by the Military.
That is where the Terms MIL and CIV came from.
I'm sure you already knew that, but there again our tiny .223 bullet HEADS are probably too weeny for a rufty tufty .338 shooter like yourself!

You will also be unaware exactly what percentage of people compete in each class as you think it's all about straight pull AR15 type rifles.

I bet you're the kind of guy who calls LBR and LBP shooters frauds too, aren't you? and still harps on about wanting your pistols back (even though you probably never owned one)

Jan 6th, less than a week away, 08.00am start, Can I tell everyone to expect your diatribe around 08.15?
Then we can get the range safety brief out of the way and let the frauding begin



Stop Press...........I have just been informed that you are the PROUD owner of a Sig Sauer 522.
Is this not a plastic lookeylikey of a real gun?
I put it to you LapuaWalteyBoy that it is in fact you that is the fraud.
Am I correct?

Do you read .22 Shooter? :lol:

lapua338 wrote:Clearly, you did not grasp mentally my previous posts.

It was the meaning of the term "Civilian" Service Rifle that we were discussing and perhaps the particular discipline shot with modern straight-pull rifles (not an "as-issued" rifle) would be best served redefined as something else entirely, i.e., "Tactical" Rifle or something appropriate as others have also suggested.

Sorry, but I refuse to trade insults with you so it would appear that our discussion is at an end.

You do seem to care about the name - why ? You don't shoot the discipline, but you think pedantry over the name is a worthwhile contribution to our sport.

Does it really matter what its called? Would you join in if it wasn't called CSR?

And once again - plenty of people shoot it with bolt guns...it is not exclusively for ARs.

I am also now informed that you apparently shoot McQueens competitions with your beloved CZ 527 in 0.223" calibre.
Is this correct?

McQueens was always a competition for Sniper type rifles in their respective calibre's, i.e. .303 and 7.62mm NATO.
Yours is neither, so once again I put it to you that it is in fact you that is the fraud.

What do you have to say for yourself now tough guy?