The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Fedaykin, I'm not really interested debating you're extensive knowledge of firearms as I've probably not read as many books, but I do congratulate you on your dedication to the subject.

I like to shoot, I shoot as much and as often as I can, I have been shooting all weekend.

I have shot lots of British and Foreign military rifles and well as civilian derivatives. You may think me a Walt for making a typo but what claims have I made about any military service or courageous acts.

I don't make claims or statements about things that I cannot back up with practical hands on experience. Things I've gleaned from books or on the interweb related to shooting I take with a pinch of salt until I've personally tried them out. Some books I respect as being well researched others are dismissed as having limited pedigree: Skennerton is good others are not, but thats IMHO.

ordnance wrote:

No it wouldn't, what in-service rifle used by the miltary anywhere in the world is user configurable to left or right ejection

What about the Steyr AUG and the Tavor can they not be configured to be used left or right handed. ?

Yes they can, a quick Youtubes search shows the operation conversion on both rifles:

Tavor (Civvy version):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CyxeYn-1Sw

Steyr AUG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OJhEy9Bh9A

Not sure about Israeli service with the Tavor but militaries that fielded the AUG rarely put in the left hand conversion kit preferring to train the lefties to shoot off the right shoulder.

Fedaykin wrote:

Sixshot6 wrote: Thanks Fedaykin, I thought I had done something wrong questioning the guy and asking him to do something other than laugh and criticize but you're right. We should have an opinion, to quote some French politicians many moons ago "You cannot leave the fighting to the generals". Look where that leads us. Maybe the Germans at HK were future proofing or pulling a surreal form of German humor on us? Plus of course we need spares. Its not like we're making any. I'm glad for people like you. People like John MH guilt trip me into feeling bad, especially after I said he had been trolling, but that's what his behavior was like. Thank you. To bad the thread was so badly ruined.

There has been some debate about the A3 marked receivers, I haven't got a clue how many were made or even when. Certainly they were part of H&K's ongoing support contracts to support the L85 ever since BAE Systems Land Systems gave up on the rifle and its small arms business. I presume H&K used tooling to make the receivers from the shut down BAE site in Barrow, for that matter they might have been stored away since the overhaul and were marked up more recently as A3 to just denote their injection into the system. Some have speculated that H&K were putting the A3 mark on them to put the idea in the MOD's collective head that more rifles could be made but I am personally sceptical.

Cranfield University has been doing some interesting contract work for the MOD more recently taking weight out of the design and using a Stellite barrel so there might well be life in the old girl yet.

On a side note got a chance to fire a Grand Old Lady of British service rifles today, a Martini Henry. Had a huge grin on my face!

Good, I'll have to fire one, one of these days. If you're ever in my neck of the woods, you can have a go with my VZ MARS. Also sorry for the private messages, you don't have to reply to them. I just got a bit worried when I sent them and one the sentences I regret. But good on Cranfield for doing that. What is Stellite anyway as far as metals go?

Sixshot6 wrote:

ordnance wrote:

No it wouldn't, what in-service rifle used by the miltary anywhere in the world is user configurable to left or right ejection

What about the Steyr AUG and the Tavor can they not be configured to be used left or right handed. ?

Good point Ordnance.

the AUG requires a different bolt to make it left handed, i think.... but i haven't shot one

the tavor requires a field strip to swap it over, but the strip doesn't require tools i believe.... but i haven't shot one.

so for a fast swap to change shoulders to shoot around a corner they dont really fit the bill.

i think its not so much the configurable to left handed shooting that is the issue, but the ability to be shot left handed when set up as right eject and vice versa.

ordnance wrote:

No it wouldn't, what in-service rifle used by the miltary anywhere in the world is user configurable to left or right ejection

What about the Steyr AUG and the Tavor can they not be configured to be used left or right handed. ?

Not in Military Service, civilian versions only.

Fedaykin wrote:

ordnance wrote:

No it wouldn't, what in-service rifle used by the miltary anywhere in the world is user configurable to left or right ejection

What about the Steyr AUG and the Tavor can they not be configured to be used left or right handed. ?

Yes they can, a quick Youtubes search shows the operation conversion on both rifles:

Tavor (Civvy version):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CyxeYn-1Sw

Steyr AUG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OJhEy9Bh9A

Not sure about Israeli service with the Tavor but militaries that fielded the AUG rarely put in the left hand conversion kit preferring to train the lefties to shoot off the right shoulder.

With the Tavor I believe its already in. Its a non-gunsmithing job I think. The kits are just to get it to use other cals like 5.45x39 for some ex soviet military's that have a crap tonne of it, that they need to burn through.

Most of this Multi-Calibre, LH switchable to RH nonsense is to cater for the US civilian market, it has no real 'practical' military use. Think about it.

Barrels cannot be made out of Stellite it's a surface lining that can be applied to the bore, we have valve seats with it at work but it contains cobalt and that's a significant disadvantage in it's application as a wear resistant coating in that particular application.

It's too brittle to make a barrel completely out of Stellite.

John MH wrote:Fedaykin, I'm not really interested debating you're extensive knowledge of firearms as I've probably not read as many books, but I do congratulate you on your dedication to the subject.

I like to shoot, I shoot as much and as often as I can, I have been shooting all weekend.

I have shot lots of British and Foreign military rifles and well as civilian derivatives. You may think me a Walt for making a typo but what claims have I made about any military service or courageous acts.

I don't make claims or statements about things that I cannot back up with practical hands on experience. Things I've gleaned from books or on the interweb related to shooting I take with a pinch of salt until I've personally tried them out. Some books I respect as being well researched others are dismissed as having limited pedigree: Skennerton is good others are not, but thats IMHO.

Good! I also like shooting, had a wonderful Easter Egg shoot today playing with my STG-44 .22lr. A toy but one that left a big grin on my face, just need to buy a German army helmet now to complete the picture.

I don't think you are a WALT typo or not, just take it as a wry observation that there is always somebody else who knows a bit more and believe me I have had many an embarrassing moment over the years when somebody more knowledgeable than me pulls me up with a correction. I have reached the point in my life where I see it as a learning experience. I have fired exactly 40 rounds out of a real L85, in operating sense that gives me the bearest and most superficial experiences of its operating foibles so if you have fired thousands of rounds out of the thing then your insight is fascinating to me but that doesn't mean I or anybody else can't have a nerdish level of knowledge about its history or technical details.

Like all book learning you have to read between the lines a bit, taking the history of the L85 I think there is still much to learn. Do I think it is a flawed design? Yes but then again I see the AK and AR-15 as flawed designs as well. As with the AK (notice I don't say AK-47 as they are rare as rocking horse poo*), AR-15 and L85A2 continued development and training has mitigated those flaws. The L85A2 is a reliable rifle now and the troops trust it which is something to note, I even think (jokingly) that when it is replaced there will be old sorts in squads proclaims that they hate the new junk and want their "Real rifle" in the form of the SA80 back! Just the same as all those years when you had old sorts in the army bemoaning how they missed the SLR.

So just take it as my constructive creative musings. OK?

*On the subject of the AK-47, it is actually an incredibly rare rifle. The US DOD didn't even have a picture of one in their archives until the late 1980's when one was found in Cambodia of all places. I roll my eyes every time a news reports states "The rebels, terrorists, child soldiers were carrying AK-47. Gun nerds sigh

John MH wrote:

ordnance wrote:

No it wouldn't, what in-service rifle used by the miltary anywhere in the world is user configurable to left or right ejection

What about the Steyr AUG and the Tavor can they not be configured to be used left or right handed. ?

Not in Military Service, civilian versions only.

The NZ-issued F88 Steyr IW can be, and often is, configured to shoot left handed. It's quite a simple task that really doesn't even need an armourer to do it, however I believe that for reasons of control and record-keeping we do require that it be done by an armourer. I'll confirm this with the armourers at work on Tuesday if anybody is interested.

Not in Military Service, civilian versions only

Are you saying the military version of the Tavor can not be changed to shoot left handed.

1.Remove the top flattop rail (Allen wrench required)
2.Remove front swivel and lock
3.Remove foregrip group
4.Remove the cocking group
5.Disassemble the cocking group and reinstall the cocking bar and handle on the right side
6.Remove the barrel
7.Covert the dust protection cover by removing the gas cylinder and dust reduction plate, then reposition the plate so that the cocking hole is on the right side
8.In reverse order, reassemble the weapon and it is now ready for left-hand operation