A lot of NDs

[northumbrian]

Salut,

si l' "happiness is a pistol called Tokarev" ...
il t'attend bien au chaud

http://www.armurerie-auxerre.com/catalo ... -2225.html

The only one I shot had a trigger set in concrete ...

Thanks for the link, they've got some nice toys on their site.

The trigger is based on the Colt 1903 Pocket hammerless, and similar to the 1911, although, whilst it can be tuned, you really need to know what you are doing as it very easy to have a trigger that'll go off with Fly's fart.

The idea of a Glock is great, easy to train troop to use, cheap to make, easy to maintain. If your a government what's not to like.
I suppose the proof will be in the pudding as to how safe British troops are going to be after they've had the Glocks a few years.

[Sim G]

Ok just to chuck a curved one in. I've carried a Tokarev TT-33, for work purposes in N.Africa & Mid.east.
I carried it loaded, but not ready. Mag in, chamber empty.

Everyday, without fail, I would practice drawing & racking the slide in one sequence.
I wouldn't just do the odd one or two, I'd do at least 100+ per day, this kept my body conditioned, muscle memory spot on.
The 2 mags I used were painted in a Mr Blobby colour scheme, with a similar colour on each dumby round, and they were kept in my digs with my main maintenance/cleaning kit.
I have never had an ND, and this was with a pistol with NO safety features at all, none in any shape or form, other than me.
The holster was standard PLCE , mounted on my belt.

Right hand to the holster, left hand across lower chest, moving down to weapon, now on it's way up to meet left hand.
Left hand meets, front half of slide, right hand pushing frame forward.
Slide released, left hand to right shoulder trigger pulled, nasty person dropped.
Second round, left had cups right handed grip, thumb to thumb.

I never timed myself but, I can say it DID work, everytime. But If I did not practice in the manner I did, I would not be typing this today.

Now I live in France, I can't wait to get my hands on a Tokarev again, other than a 1911, it will always be my number one choice.
For the record, I hate Glocks.

Training & familiarity with the weapon are essential, not an optional extra.

Somewhat similar to the Israeli method...

[Chuck]

Right hand to the holster, left hand across lower chest, moving down to weapon, now on it's way up to meet left hand.
Left hand meets, front half of slide, right hand pushing frame forward.
Slide released, left hand to right shoulder trigger pulled, nasty person dropped.
Second round, left had cups right handed grip, thumb to thumb.

So first shot is one handed then northumbrian?.

All sounds a bit slow (too many moves) much as it worked for you thankfully .

[northumbrian]

The first shot is one handed yes.
It sounds slow, I agree, but both hands are moving at the same time. I suppose I could have written the description a bit better.
The bottom line is a takes a lot of practice, so unless your prepared to spend the time, it won't really work and you'll just get yourself killed.
On the range I'd shoot about 250 - 300 rounds, per session, in various positions, left & right handed, and at various ranges out to 100m.
The one thing I like about the TT-33 is the round it fires, 7.62x25mm is just a fantastic round, but that is for another thread.
I know it seems as though I'm straying off topic here, but bear with me, I'm not.
The level of proficiency I achieved with the TT-33 is because I never stopped training with it.
As I said in a previous post, the TT-33 has no safety's at all, and the only way to carry it safely was loaded, but not ready.
The only way you can make the weapon ready is to draw the weapon, pull the slide, release the slide & pull the trigger.
Not having a safety to think about, certainly speeds things up, but the level of discipline needed, not to have an ND is very, very high.
I am not saying I am a great gun slinger, or a master of the gun, the truth is there is always going to be someone better than you.
The last pistol I shot was a club gun, a Hammerli X-esse, before that a friends 1911, before that nothing since 2005.
I know for a fact, no matter how good I was, and the operative word here is was, I cannot handle a gun of any kind to the same level with out starting the same level of training again.
My point is, safety features on top of safety features are all well and good, but the one safety feature that will never fail is good training & routines.

[DL.]

The first shot is one handed yes.
It sounds slow, I agree, but both hands are moving at the same time. I suppose I could have written the description a bit better.
The bottom line is a takes a lot of practice, so unless your prepared to spend the time, it won't really work and you'll just get yourself killed.
On the range I'd shoot about 250 - 300 rounds, per session, in various positions, left & right handed, and at various ranges out to 100m.
The one thing I like about the TT-33 is the round it fires, 7.62x25mm is just a fantastic round, but that is for another thread.
I know it seems as though I'm straying off topic here, but bear with me, I'm not.
The level of proficiency I achieved with the TT-33 is because I never stopped training with it.
As I said in a previous post, the TT-33 has no safety's at all, and the only way to carry it safely was loaded, but not ready.
The only way you can make the weapon ready is to draw the weapon, pull the slide, release the slide & pull the trigger.
Not having a safety to think about, certainly speeds things up, but the level of discipline needed, not to have an ND is very, very high.
I am not saying I am a great gun slinger, or a master of the gun, the truth is there is always going to be someone better than you.
The last pistol I shot was a club gun, a Hammerli X-esse, before that a friends 1911, before that nothing since 2005.
I know for a fact, no matter how good I was, and the operative word here is was, I cannot handle a gun of any kind to the same level with out starting the same level of training again.
My point is, safety features on top of safety features are all well and good, but the one safety feature that will never fail is good training & routines.

The 7.62x25 must be awesome if you're shooting it at 100m.

[northumbrian]

Standard Soviet/Russian surplus ammo, no, it was designed to do a job.
However, Hand loading it's potential really comes out.
But always good ammo only goes halfway, you need a good gun too.
The TT-33 is great, but it's even better with a good hand loads.

But again this is for another thread, which do when I get another Tokarev, I'll put up all the data, and some vids shooting the TT-33 out to 100m.

[dromia]

I used to own a Tokarev and found it a fine pistol. I used to do rather well on the advancing man with it. Recoil was stiff but it just came back down to point of aim each time out of recoil.

I was using Russian military ammunition the reason it was called ball I suspect was because of the ball of flame that would follow the bullet down range, every case split as well but it hit where it was pointed, I was very sorry to see it go.

[northumbrian]

I used to own a Tokarev and found it a fine pistol. I used to do rather well on the advancing man with it. Recoil was stiff but it just came back down to point of aim each time out of recoil.

I was using Russian military ammunition the reason it was called ball I suspect was because of the ball of flame that would follow the bullet down range, every case split as well but it hit where it was pointed, I was very sorry to see it go.

I will admit I may have soiled my shreddies, when I first shot a Tokarev, I simply was not expecting the fire ball

But if you ever find yourself in deepest darkest Limousin, come in for a brew & I'll take you down to the range, and you can have blast.

[Chuck]

The bottom line is a takes a lot of practice, so unless your prepared to spend the time, it won't really work and you'll just get yourself killed.

clapclap clapclap clapclap :lol:

Quite right which is why I wonder at the technique, as you say slower than normal - so why bother? Not a criticism, just an observation. surely getting faster in a traditional manner would be less work??

Try this:

Round chambered, hammer down safety OFF.

From relaxed. Left Hands comes to SIDE Left Kidney area or above magazines if carried.
right
Hand comes straight up then straight down, frame of gun deep in web of hand, trigger finger down side of holster.

grip and draw up till holster cleared. Rotate pistol towards target and push forward, left hand comes up at same time and "catches" firing hand. Firing hand pushes in to left hand.

Nice two handed grip and bang bang.......bang if required.

Easier to demo than write. Works for me, and draw times VERY fast.

My point is, safety features on top of safety features are all well and good, but the one safety feature that will never fail is good training & routines.

clapclap clapclap :goodjob:

[northumbrian]

The bottom line is a takes a lot of practice, so unless your prepared to spend the time, it won't really work and you'll just get yourself killed.

clapclap clapclap clapclap :lol:

Quite right which is why I wonder at the technique, as you say slower than normal - so why bother? Not a criticism, just an observation. surely getting faster in a traditional manner would be less work??

Try this:

Round chambered, hammer down safety OFF.

From relaxed. Left Hands comes to SIDE Left Kidney area or above magazines if carried.
right
Hand comes straight up then straight down, frame of gun deep in web of hand, trigger finger down side of holster.

grip and draw up till holster cleared. Rotate pistol towards target and push forward, left hand comes up at same time and "catches" firing hand. Firing hand pushes in to left hand.

Nice two handed grip and bang bang.......bang if required.

Easier to demo than write. Works for me, and draw times VERY fast.

My point is, safety features on top of safety features are all well and good, but the one safety feature that will never fail is good training & routines.

clapclap clapclap :goodjob:

Is your holster on the right hand side or left?

As you said easier to demonstrate than to write, same for my technique.
But, yeah I'll have a go, you never know until you try it out.
We'll have to get together sometime and spend sometime at a range.

Cheers

Northumbrian