A lot of NDs

[Chuck]

Simple SIM. US police departments asked for them, as did Portugese officials - two different sets of people. And as said by others, Glock don't do external safeties very well

[Sim G]

Curious how you assimilate to the theory "Cops to dumb to operate a normal Glock by all accounts"

[tackb]

of all the pistols I owned before they were stolen by the government the glock would be the only auto I would do it with.

[froggy]

re-
theory "Cops to dumb to operate a normal Glock by all accounts"

I think this is due to two factors :
- Unlike the military that faces an "enenmy" , Law Enforcement agencies face the "public" . As such LEA are sh*t scared of "incidents" and they want ubber "fool proof" guns.
- Armed officers in Great-Britain are, I believed, extremely well trained & highly capable. Let's face it , except intervention units, it's hardly true of all police forces around the world where time & budget constrains mean the average armed policeman receives little training and does not practice often.

The Customs Force uses my French shooting range for their compulsary "shoots" with their individual service weapons, meaning I witnessed scary stuff . On the other hand I know a fair number of LEO officers, some of them are interested in firearms and they practice a lot, most often on their free time & own money. Others are not, stick to their minimum required shoots. I dont blame them because they are police officers not gun slingers.

[northumbrian]

Ok just to chuck a curved one in. I've carried a Tokarev TT-33, for work purposes in N.Africa & Mid.east.
I carried it loaded, but not ready. Mag in, chamber empty.

Everyday, without fail, I would practice drawing & racking the slide in one sequence.
I wouldn't just do the odd one or two, I'd do at least 100+ per day, this kept my body conditioned, muscle memory spot on.
The 2 mags I used were painted in a Mr Blobby colour scheme, with a similar colour on each dumby round, and they were kept in my digs with my main maintenance/cleaning kit.
I have never had an ND, and this was with a pistol with NO safety features at all, none in any shape or form, other than me.
The holster was standard PLCE , mounted on my belt.

Right hand to the holster, left hand across lower chest, moving down to weapon, now on it's way up to meet left hand.
Left hand meets, front half of slide, right hand pushing frame forward.
Slide released, left hand to right shoulder trigger pulled, nasty person dropped.
Second round, left had cups right handed grip, thumb to thumb.

I never timed myself but, I can say it DID work, everytime. But If I did not practice in the manner I did, I would not be typing this today.

Now I live in France, I can't wait to get my hands on a Tokarev again, other than a 1911, it will always be my number one choice.
For the record, I hate Glocks.

Training & familiarity with the weapon are essential, not an optional extra.

[froggy]

Salut,

si l' "happiness is a pistol called Tokarev" ...
il t'attend bien au chaud

http://www.armurerie-auxerre.com/catalo ... -2225.html

The only one I shot had a trigger set in concrete ...

[ordnance]

Glock have removed all safeties
?? actually two internal + 1 external

I know that, neither of the others will stop the firearm firing if the trigger is pulled unintentionally. And as we are talking about N/D-S usually caused by someone pulling the trigger when they shouldn't the other two safeties are irrelevant unless you drop the firearm.

But forget the theory and be honnest , ask yourself how happy would you be to carry 24/24 straped to your leg or against your hipo a pistol in Cond Zero, ie : live round chambered, hammer cocked & ready with the safety off ?

That's what you are doing if you carry a Glock.

The well trained metropolitan police managed to have more negligent discharges than the police service of N Ireland. The met are supposed to be one of the best trained, and have more training than the PSNI on firearms so in this case extra and better training doesn't seem to have helped. The PSNI 10,000 armed officers the MET 3000 armed officers. PSNI two weeks basic firearms training the MET I am not sure but I am sure its a lot more than two weeks basic training.

ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE LEAGUE TABLE:


Metropolitan Police 56


Northern Ireland 31


Bedfordshire 3

Devon and Cornwall 2


Lincolnshire Police 2
.

[froggy]

by pulled unintentionally I assume you mean not by the user ? If so, any pistol with or without safety will be a prob (read danger) if its trigger is pulled unintentionally by the user's finger..

If not, as mentioned before, invest in some serious kydex from Safariland or LHS

interesting stats there - I had no idea - do you have access to it as an average per user or is the Met figure higher because the unit is bigger - thanks

[Chuck]

The Customs Force uses my French shooting range for their compulsary "shoots" with their individual service weapons, meaning I witnessed scary stuff . On the other hand I know a fair number of LEO officers, some of them are interested in firearms and they practice a lot, most often on their free time & own money. Others are not, stick to their minimum required shoots. I dont blame them because they are police officers not gun slingers.

Same the world over, and Sim, it was because of dumbass cops ND's and possible litigation that safeties were asked for - by cops! Don't take things personally Sim, you know I do not mean you!.

Froggy is spot on though except on one wee bit: some also choose not to train because it will never happen to them! Denial is a deadly sin on the streets.

[ordnance]

interesting stats there - I had no idea - do you have access to it as an average per user or is the Met figure higher because the unit is bigger - thanks

That's what doesn't make sense the MET 3000 armed officers the PSNI 10.000 armed officers the MET even with more training seem to have more negligent discharges. The MET leave their firearms in the station the PSNI take theirs home with them and carry them all the time.