EU Proposals Now Inc's MAGAZINES (FAC variation required!)

[breacher]

Playing devils advocate here regarding the "risk" we are at here in the UK..........

Firearms are permitted in Ulster due to the terrorism threat there. They continue to be permitted despite the fact that "peace" has been negotiated. I would imagine that the day to day crime rate over there is similar to London or Liverpool. I would say the terrorist threat is ACTUALLY LOWER that the Rest of the UK when you factor in our current threat level regarding ISIS / Daesh / Al Queda etc

As regards, probability of need - the majority of drivers get through their entire driving life without a seat belt restraining them yet its a legal requirement. Same goes for car insurance. Most drivers regularly service their cars yet we have an enforced MOT "just in case" some idiot decides not to service his car properly. Look at London Buses - you have more chance of winning the lottery than ever finding a fire onboard and needing a fire extinguisher - yet its a legal requirement "just in case".

You cannot have it both ways - you cannot use the "just in case" argument to enforce legislation like seat belts, vehicle insurance, etc then use it against someone who wants a particular item just in case he/she needs it, even though they probably never will need it.

[froggy]

Playing devils advocate here regarding the "risk" we are at here in the UK..
and you did a good job at it

[Blackstuff]

To be fair even if they wouldn't 'jump in at the deep end' allowing firearms to be carried for self-defence, how about just catching up with the majority of the rest of Europe and allowing stun guns and pepper spray?? You can literally go into a gun shop/similar on the continent and just buy them over the counter no questions ask, even if you're 'foreign'. I know as I've done it in France. I didn't even know what the French for pepperspray was and had to mime out my brother spraying me and my face burning Obviously it was disposed of before I came back to gangsters paradise.

[Fedaykin]

Playing devils advocate here regarding the "risk" we are at here in the UK..........

Firearms are permitted in Ulster due to the terrorism threat there. They continue to be permitted despite the fact that "peace" has been negotiated. I would imagine that the day to day crime rate over there is similar to London or Liverpool. I would say the terrorist threat is ACTUALLY LOWER that the Rest of the UK when you factor in our current threat level regarding ISIS / Daesh / Al Queda etc

As regards, probability of need - the majority of drivers get through their entire driving life without a seat belt restraining them yet its a legal requirement. Same goes for car insurance. Most drivers regularly service their cars yet we have an enforced MOT "just in case" some idiot decides not to service his car properly. Look at London Buses - you have more chance of winning the lottery than ever finding a fire onboard and needing a fire extinguisher - yet its a legal requirement "just in case".

You cannot have it both ways - you cannot use the "just in case" argument to enforce legislation like seat belts, vehicle insurance, etc then use it against someone who wants a particular item just in case he/she needs it, even though they probably never will need it.

Seat belts save lives every single day, car insurance companies get thousands of calls every day, there are fires every day, these are known metrics so no that isn't a reasonable line of thinking.

The legislative path just to get pistols for target shooting is virtually non existent, CCW is a step beyond that has no chance in this country. People can want it all they can but it is not going to change the situation and it fuels the antis arguments against us.

[joe]

The threat of being shot up by bunch of Muslim terrorists is quite high and will be prob Happen at some point in this country! That alone, in my opinion is enough to justify trained fac holders to carry !
The only reason people are against guns in general is because they have been brain washed by the media, home office and plod that guns are evil and that USA has 100000000000 shootings every day !
Yet all eu countries have more legal firepower then thr uk and even some allowing carriage of arms for protection .
It's moot point here as not even the police are routinely armed ! CS spray and tazer should be legal here as it is in much of Europe

[froggy]

Seat belts save lives every single day, car insurance companies get thousands of calls every day, there are fires every day, these are known metrics so no that isn't a reasonable line of thinking.

True but one could argue in the same way that far more innocent people get mug at knife point every day (there are about 350 knife attacks per day in the UK) or that more girls also get raped every day (in England and Wales, 99,600 sex crimes, including 33,431 rapes, were reported) than drivers get protected or saved by seat belts.

Once again I am not an advocate of carrying a gun at present but these are also very well known metrics. Bearing in mind that the Gvt is also hell bent on letting in more of the high risk criminal or terrorist groups, surely CC isn't that a un-reasonable line of thinking either, dont you think ?

[breacher]

To be fair even if they wouldn't 'jump in at the deep end' allowing firearms to be carried for self-defence, how about just catching up with the majority of the rest of Europe and allowing stun guns and pepper spray?? You can literally go into a gun shop/similar on the continent and just buy them over the counter no questions ask, even if you're 'foreign'. I know as I've done it in France. I didn't even know what the French for pepperspray was and had to mime out my brother spraying me and my face burning Obviously it was disposed of before I came back to gangsters paradise.

Small aerosol can of brake cleaner. Just saying..........

[breacher]

Playing devils advocate here regarding the "risk" we are at here in the UK..........

Firearms are permitted in Ulster due to the terrorism threat there. They continue to be permitted despite the fact that "peace" has been negotiated. I would imagine that the day to day crime rate over there is similar to London or Liverpool. I would say the terrorist threat is ACTUALLY LOWER that the Rest of the UK when you factor in our current threat level regarding ISIS / Daesh / Al Queda etc

As regards, probability of need - the majority of drivers get through their entire driving life without a seat belt restraining them yet its a legal requirement. Same goes for car insurance. Most drivers regularly service their cars yet we have an enforced MOT "just in case" some idiot decides not to service his car properly. Look at London Buses - you have more chance of winning the lottery than ever finding a fire onboard and needing a fire extinguisher - yet its a legal requirement "just in case".

You cannot have it both ways - you cannot use the "just in case" argument to enforce legislation like seat belts, vehicle insurance, etc then use it against someone who wants a particular item just in case he/she needs it, even though they probably never will need it.

Seat belts save lives every single day, car insurance companies get thousands of calls every day, there are fires every day, these are known metrics so no that isn't a reasonable line of thinking.

The legislative path just to get pistols for target shooting is virtually non existent, CCW is a step beyond that has no chance in this country. People can want it all they can but it is not going to change the situation and it fuels the antis arguments against us.

For every one extinguisher that was used in anger, there will be 100 that reached their use by date / depressurised.

For every one car with an airbag that has deployed once in the cars life, there will be a hundred that were driven for a couple of hundred thousand miles and got scrapped without an airbag ever being needed.

Seat belts MIGHT be saving lives but there are many many people ( the vast majority ) who never actually have an impact where the lack of a belt would have been injurious or fatal. I have managed 30 years driving military, police and civilian vehicles and not once has a belt been needed ! And I am sure I am not alone.

Car insurance ? Yes, many calls made but again, the majority go years at a time without making a claim.

My point is that a firearm COULD be judged to be a safety device ( like a fire extinguisher ) or a sort of insurance policy for those "unlikely but just in case" scenarios. Low risk cannot be argued just like "I have never had a fire so whats the point of carrying an extinguisher" or "I am a safe driver - I dont need insurance" or "I drove my last car for 10 years and 200k and never set off the airbag, so I wont bother with one on the new car".

Tis true Froggy - there is a bit of the Divil in me, to be sure so there is !! waveirishflag

The annoying thing is, I can just as easily argue the case AGAINST too - I should have been a barrister - I absolutely love a debate.

[Chuck]

Guys it is NOT a hang up, it's a discussion and if ACPLOD or whoever have an issue then tough, they do NOT as yet control our speech to such levels. .

FACT, they have no remit to protect you so what is the alternative??. So many on here just REFUSE to see the concept for what it is PERSONAL DEFENCE. Level of crime is irrelevant as you do NOT KNOW 100% EVERY DAY if you will be a victim on any given day.

Whatever: here's a reason to have a gun, even in the UK because sure as hell plod will arrive to draw the chalk around your body - and those of many others if this goers down in the UK!

Agreed some people live in denial, good luck with that strategy. Anyone can deny reality - but not the outcome and effects of it.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/14/afric ... st-attack/

[safetyfirst]

Sigh.