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1066 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:07 am Until the police can be trusted to all be singing from the same sheet this would just be another way to shaft us. ][/url]

You lost me at trusted.
I'm struggling to see where they're (honestly) getting their figures from.

Most renewals should be a doddle to perform for any competent office. Unless a medical condition becomes flagged, checks are limited to a visit to check you still comply with security requirements, and still possess the firearms on your FAC. A quick peek on the police computer to confirm a holder hasn't been up to no good in-between times, and you're done. Despite supplying records of my club firearm usage and referees, I've had no feedback from either to suggest they are checked. I doubt if more than an hour and a half is spent on renewals. Most of that is the security visit. I'm struggling to see the £500 + value in that. Nor why it takes around a month to perform.

As for first time issues of FACs, checking the paperwork, referees, gun clubs, PNC, and security visit it ought not to take more than a few hours to perform. Still not seeing the £500 + value.
As said above, policing festivals, football matches, and the like, neither of which I attend nor care about, takes far more out of forces' budgets than the relatively small burden of FAC checks.
Given that both of those events increase the likelihood of criminal activity, damage, and social disruption, I see no reason why the police don't press for the organizers to put into the kitty for services external to the event. The police aren't required to police shooting events because, frankly, FAC holders are pretty much the cream of British citizenship. Why should we be penalized for the issuance of what is, essentially, a health and safety certificate? There ought not be a fee at all.

Pippin89 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:17 am

1066 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:07 am Until the police can be trusted to all be singing from the same sheet this would just be another way to shaft us. From this recent survey it shows Humberside have about 10 staff for FAC/SC processing for 13,000 certificates at an average cost of £42 per certificate - Durham have 14 staff for 8,000 certificates at an average cost of £520 each.

Which end of the scale do you think we would be charged?

This is pretty damning in itself. Because one of three things has happened to produce such wildly different figures:

• Some counties are running massively inefficiently compared to others

• Some counties are purposely inflating their numbers because they want to see an end to it all

• Some accountants just can't count!

That's a very interesting chart of licences v costs, I noted that Devon & Cornwall has over 40,000 SG & Fac's, perhaps that's why they take so long to process them!

Interesting to see Merseyside have the lowest number of FAC holders at only 981 but one of the highest number of gun crimes in the country with 83 shooting incidents in the last year.

1066 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:24 pm Interesting to see Merseyside have the lowest number of FAC holders at only 981 but one of the highest number of gun crimes in the country with 83 shooting incidents in the last year.

The number of FAC holders has I believe gone down a bit more .

But the costs are the second highest so we must be getting good service and value for money .

Although the visit to Aintree Pistol Club a few years back involved between 12-20 Firearms staff , Traffic Police , Firearms Squad and maybe others .

The traffic police booked one person , but then they failed to appear at court several times , till the magistrate threw the case out .

And the visit posed one big question that has never been properly answered ....

1066 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:24 pm Interesting to see Merseyside have the lowest number of FAC holders at only 981 but one of the highest number of gun crimes in the country with 83 shooting incidents in the last year.

Shhhh.... You can't use logic when analysing firearms crime!

When I was with West Mercia they used to have their HQ at Hindlip Hall in Worcester. 30 years ago I could drive out there and get a variation done in around half and hour while I waited. When I was transferred to West Mid's, after a border change, I could still drive into Brum and get someone from firearms licencing to come down and sort things out.
Then Stafford took over. They won't even allow anyone to visit their HQ to simply ask about their licence.
I drove up to the Aintree club a few years ago to buy my Winchester Legacy .357. Then I heard about the police raid on the place. Did it close down or is it still going???

Graham M wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:23 am Then Stafford took over. They won't even allow anyone to visit their HQ to simply ask about their licence.

I'm with the Met and they have always been very prompt in turning mine round.

I meet occasionally with very senior officers - last two Commisssioners and the temporary one, various ACCs, DCCs, Commanders &c. I go into Hendon, unescorted. But, I cannot even drop off an application at the offices used by the FEOs - they will not accept personal couriers either!

For the last visit the FEO arrived - and on my desk just happened to be a letter from Cressida Dick. I wonder if that had any influence?

Graham M wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:23 am When I was with West Mercia they used to have their HQ at Hindlip Hall in Worcester. 30 years ago I could drive out there and get a variation done in around half and hour while I waited. When I was transferred to West Mid's, after a border change, I could still drive into Brum and get someone from firearms licencing to come down and sort things out.
Then Stafford took over. They won't even allow anyone to visit their HQ to simply ask about their licence.
I drove up to the Aintree club a few years ago to buy my Winchester Legacy .357. Then I heard about the police raid on the place. Did it close down or is it still going???

Aintree is still running .
The Air Gun side of it is well attended .

And it also runs as a Minature Rifle Range .

Merseysside Police kindly returned all the "club" .22lr rifles that had been seized .