The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

ovenpaa wrote:It is a cracking looking rifle and I must admit I am still a bit bemused that these things were allowed onto the market as I have always thought it was once a Section 5 always a Section 5 and it is the same receiver..

Yep, I'm with you! As fantastic as this looks, even through my "green eyed monster", I still can't see how with a simple barrel change, as implied above, that S5 becomes S1.....

Indeed, I have looked into building L1A1's in .22 in the past and the response from both my licensing authority and the Home Office was entirely black and white - it was fine if everything used was built brand new and had never, at any time, been part of a firearm to which sections 5(1)(a) or 5(1)(ab) of the firearms act relate (basically fully automatic firearms and semi-automatics) as once a firearm or its major components have been under the restriction of section 5 of the firearms act they shall ever remain so... This even was applied to woodwork (which is ridiculous), everything would have to be of new manufacture.

Using parts of a De-Act is also a major no-no for the reasons above. The only area where one can move a firearms classification from section 5 to section 1 (or 2) is in the case of section 5(1)(ac) which covers self loading and pump action shotguns with a barrel length of less that 24" which may be reclassified with a longer barrel fitted, but this is the only exception.

Morning all,

I know what you mean about the "once a S5 always S5 mantra". You would expect the Fun Police to say "No it just looks to much like good fun so it can't be legal" but common sense has won the day!

Who knows, we may see WW2 SP M1 Garands back at Bisley one day, I can't see why not, after all M1 Carbines are now back on the scene.

This "new class" of converted classic Firearms might just bring a whole new generation and much needed infusion of new blood into what is an aging sport.



Copied from an old post of Dirtbags below

"The Home Office has formally, through FELWG and ACPO classed our L1A1 SLR as unquestionably Section 1. The adaptations to the bolt and carrier mean not only that it could not be converted to S5 use but that the fact it was submitted for formal approval means all Police Authorities will be informed as part of ACPOs guidance."

This relates to the Straight pull L1's produced by Anglo Custom Rifles, but the Suffolk Gun Companies "straight pull" mods are clearly the same in order to meet type approval.

Gas block de-activated, barrel un-ported, no Gas tube/piston assembly, carrier and bolt modified not to repeat....the only way to make this rifle semi auto again would be to melt it down and make a new one :lol:

Cheers, John.

All power to you, John and good luck with it.

Yes I'm envious like you wouldn't believe. I started humping one of those around more years ago than I can care to remember. But and this is a big but and not in a good way like Jennifer Lopez, don't trust the word of anyone when it comes to the legality of this. And just because "I built mine to the same spec as the last bloke who the Home Office said OK to" is a little too ambiguous for my suspicious mind!

I still really like it though!!

Hi,

I hear what you are saying, but the UK has some of the tightest Firearms regs in the World and L1 Straight pulls have been available for over a year now.

If the Home office took any issue with this rifle, they would have confiscated the first example to emerge, swooped down on all involved and thrown the book at them!

As it is, a steady trickle of these splendid rifles have been winging there way all over the country....without issue!

It seems, prior to this conversion, no one had really tested the S5 to S1 rule, it shows that refreshingly, common sense can occasionally overrule the I'm not Listening brigade.

Once an agreed standard of conversion work has been carried out to a specific Firearm type it, effectively creates a Home Office "type approval" and it goes on the S1 list.

Providing this is rigidly stuck to by all party's involved in L1A1 re-building, then there is no problem...approval is approval!

Thats my take on it anyway.

Cheers, John.

On the law side (I'm happy to admit I'm not a lawyer), as I understood it there isn't such a thing as "Section 5" component part, just a Section 5 firearm. "Once a S5 always a S5", in my limited knowledge, only applies to complete firearms. Thus if you dismantle that complete firearm into barrel, action and receiver you now have a pile of S1 component parts. Can't find a reference in the 68 Act, so I may be wrong... on the flip side, there's nothing in S5 which specifically covers component parts.

I think the theory is that these L1A1s are imported as S5 firearms, dismantled to their component parts, then (re)assembled from those components without any "readily convertible" parts which could be used to convert it back into a self-loader. So things like gas blocks and ported barrels are a no-no on the finished product because those would make it "readily convertible".

If it so happens that the rifle assembled from parts stored in a parts bin coincidentally comes together with all matching numbers, well, coincidence is a lucky thing isn't it.

Hi Gaz,

Quite right mate, parts come out the barrels like Loto balls...pure luck the numbers match :lol:

Any Companies out there fancy taking up the Gauntlet on a Straight pull Garand.....or Vickers Gun.....or Bren.....or...... :lol:

Cheers, John.

A few Brens were offered as straight-pull a few years ago.....

Now I would put down some serious money for a straight-pull Lewis with convector jacket and drum magazine.

huntervixen wrote:Hi,

I hear what you are saying, but the UK has some of the tightest Firearms regs in the World and L1 Straight pulls have been available for over a year now.

If the Home office took any issue with this rifle, they would have confiscated the first example to emerge, swooped down on all involved and thrown the book at them!

As it is, a steady trickle of these splendid rifles have been winging there way all over the country....without issue!

It seems, prior to this conversion, no one had really tested the S5 to S1 rule, it shows that refreshingly, common sense can occasionally overrule the I'm not Listening brigade.

Once an agreed standard of conversion work has been carried out to a specific Firearm type it, effectively creates a Home Office "type approval" and it goes on the S1 list.

Providing this is rigidly stuck to by all party's involved in L1A1 re-building, then there is no problem...approval is approval!

Thats my take on it anyway.

Cheers, John.

Nice gun, just like mine except mine has the gas port plugged at the front to show that is has no gas port?

Mine is a 59 Enfield. Had mine over a year and no issues. Its a section 1 case closed, enjoy it mate