Legal or not?

[Hauptman]

Thanks for your replies. It certainly seems like "fine print" that a lot of shooters may not be aware of. So the definition of "possess" could even make it illegal for an FAC holder to pick up and examine an LBR or sect 1 shotgun in a gunshop, or at a venue like the Phoenix?
Certainly something to bear in mind...........

[IainWR]

So the definition of "possess" ...?
Certainly something to bear in mind...........

Unfortunately "possess", like "rifle", "acquire", "lethal", "in connection with" and a load of other key words in the Acts are not defined at all. And since FAC holders are a pretty law-abiding bunch and generally don't like to push these things to the sticking point, not many cases come to court to establish the limits. Just for example, case law has indicated that keeping a gun at home for a month between club meetings is not possession "in connection with" target shooting. But it has not established what would be possession in connection with target shooting. A week? Overnight? Not at all? Nobody knows.

Personally, I would have thought that picking up an item for sale in the presence of the person offering it would not be "possession". In the same way that putting an item in your basket in the supermarket isn't a purchase (but, if I understand correctly, presenting it at the till is an offer to do so). Possession, although not synonymous with ownership, borrowing or various other things, is more than just handling. But, I'm not a lawyer ...

Iain

[John25]

The legal definition as I remember it, of 'posession', is knowlege and control.

Thus, if you do not 'control' ie you do not have the power of disposal or removing it from its present state (owned by someone else and in their legal control) you do not posess.

A qualified lawyer will know, but I believe that looking at it, and handling a LBF or Sect. 1 shogun would not constitute an offence, whereas shooting it clearly would.

Aslo, I would have thought that a dealer having one on display would have clear instructions on what is, or is not allowed. Some (not all) firearms on display at the Phoenix were chained to the bench, perhaps for this reason?

Like Iaian, I would not want to put it to the test.

HTH

Edit, quick Google, if you have all night, here is an explaination of 'posession'



http://free-law-books.troy.rollo.name/possession.pdf

[Hauptman]

I was toying with the idea of looking for a used Longarm 22 free pistol, but it now appears from all the comments that it wouldn't be legally possible to "try before buying", even if I had an empty slot, (to use one, it appears it must be entered on your FAC), so that's that idea down the pan...................pity.

No way would I buy a used firearm privately without a trial run.

Pete

[AHPP]

It's fine to try before buying.

[Blackstuff]

I was toying with the idea of looking for a used Longarm 22 free pistol, but it now appears from all the comments that it wouldn't be legally possible to "try before buying", even if I had an empty slot, (to use one, it appears it must be entered on your FAC), so that's that idea down the pan...................pity.

No way would I buy a used firearm privately without a trial run.

Pete

The way i've heard of 'getting around this' is by emailing your FLD to ask what their opinion is regarding 'try before you buy' with LBF's and S1 shotguns. If they say its ok then you have it 'in writing' from the people who would be prosecuting you, wouldn't look to good in court for them would it Obviously if they say its no-go then you're snookered.

[Burner]

Wow! Things are more confusing over there then I thought.
What would be the rules if I were to visit? Would I be able to shoot one of your firearms without all the proper government issued legal paperwork?
Over here if we were at the range I could strap a loaded semi auto pistol on your hip, and hand you a full auto machine gun.
Then just tell the safety officer "the new fellow is ok".(Just ask Tower)
Yet if we were in My car, I could not set my pistol exposed on the seat while you were in the car, if you did not have your own carry permit. Step outside the car and I could openly hand it to you.
On private property, you can do whatever you want. No questions asked, no laws broken.

[IainWR]

The way i've heard of 'getting around this' is by emailing your FLD to ask what their opinion is regarding 'try before you buy' with LBF's and S1 shotguns. If they say its ok then you have it 'in writing' from the people who would be prosecuting you, wouldn't look to good in court for them would it Obviously if they say its no-go then you're snookered.

Do remember that an opinion from an FLD is just that. It is not binding on the Crown Prosecution Service and most certainly not binding on a judge or jury. Administrators cannot write you exemptions from the law. They can state that they will not act, but that does not constrain any other law officer, and probably does not constrain them if they change their mind for some reason.

Iain

[mr_purple]

I believe .50 cal is also restricted - if its not on your ticket you cant shoot it.
Hopefully with the new firearms act coming , these are some of the anomolies that will be sorted out

[ovenpaa]

.50BMG? As far as I am aware you can shoot one of these without special dispensation if you are dim enough to want to do so.