The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Rebarrel. It was service rifle, how many barrels could/would it have gone through before it was retired? Plus, what is the point in a sniper rifle with average accuracy?

Although, judging by your standards, Ovenpaa, it probably shoots pretty well for the rest of us!

Seriously, though, it's like Thesus' Paradox

"The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned [from Crete] had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same."
—Plutarch

or

George Washington's axe (sometimes "my grandfather's axe") is the subject of an apocryphal story of unknown origin in which the famous artifact is "still George Washington's axe" despite having had both its head and handle replaced.

...as in the case of the owner of George Washington's axe which has three times had its handle replaced and twice had its head replaced!
—Ray Broadus Browne

Is it the barrel that makes your rifle or it the markings on the reciever or the woodwork or the sum of it's parts? Unless each of us have own a rifle from new, how do we know it is original?

I still say rebarrel.

If it were me i'd only re-barrell an old military rifle if it were absolutely shot to pieces or unsafe because you're taking away the guns identity and the flaws just make them that little bit more unique.

+1 for the re-barrel and keep the original. It is (not was) a sniper rifle and was designed to be accurate.

Classic car enthusiasts use modern parts when originals are no longer available. As said before, it is expected that it would be rebarreled during it's life and it may not even have the original barrel in it!

I doubt that you will find a replacement military No4 barrel in reasonable condition and which fits your action - they are very scarce even in used condition. The new Walthar Lothar barrels from Fultons are about £350+?

I would first check the bedding (forend fit) and the bolt set-up; many/most 4(T)s in UK circulation are civilian rebuilds, and some are very poorly fitted. Your shooting group can be wrecked simply by an ill-fitting handguard, or one of the recoil faces in the draws having become slightly indented.

If the rifle still has its original barrel with the H&H index mark and (usually) the rifle number on it, then I would put it to you that you probably will significantly reduce its investment value by altering it. If you've got c. £4,000 tied up in a 65-year old collectable rifle, then the "its a rifle so rebuild it & shoot it" advice is not appropriate...

Rearlugs wrote: If the rifle still has its original barrel with the H&H index mark and (usually) the rifle number on it, then I would put it to you that you probably will significantly reduce its investment value by altering it. If you've got c. £4,000 tied up in a 65-year old collectable rifle, then the "its a rifle so rebuild it & shoot it" advice is not appropriate...

Didn't think of that!

Rearlugs wrote:I doubt that you will find a replacement military No4 barrel in reasonable condition and which fits your action - they are very scarce even in used condition. The new Walthar Lothar barrels from Fultons are about £350+?

I would first check the bedding (forend fit) and the bolt set-up; many/most 4(T)s in UK circulation are civilian rebuilds, and some are very poorly fitted. Your shooting group can be wrecked simply by an ill-fitting handguard, or one of the recoil faces in the draws having become slightly indented.

If the rifle still has its original barrel with the H&H index mark and (usually) the rifle number on it, then I would put it to you that you probably will significantly reduce its investment value by altering it. If you've got c. £4,000 tied up in a 65-year old collectable rifle, then the "its a rifle so rebuild it & shoot it" advice is not appropriate...

That's thrown a spanner in works - Good post Rearlugs

As you seem to know your Enfields - a question if I may...On an SMLE there are a couple of screws that go through the front wood work from the underside of the rifle...how tight should these be?

Dougan wrote:

Rearlugs wrote:I doubt that you will find a replacement military No4 barrel in reasonable condition and which fits your action - they are very scarce even in used condition. The new Walthar Lothar barrels from Fultons are about £350+?

I would first check the bedding (forend fit) and the bolt set-up; many/most 4(T)s in UK circulation are civilian rebuilds, and some are very poorly fitted. Your shooting group can be wrecked simply by an ill-fitting handguard, or one of the recoil faces in the draws having become slightly indented.

If the rifle still has its original barrel with the H&H index mark and (usually) the rifle number on it, then I would put it to you that you probably will significantly reduce its investment value by altering it. If you've got c. £4,000 tied up in a 65-year old collectable rifle, then the "its a rifle so rebuild it & shoot it" advice is not appropriate...

That's thrown a spanner in works - Good post Rearlugs

As you seem to know your Enfields - a question if I may...On an SMLE there are a couple of screws that go through the front wood work from the underside of the rifle...how tight should these be?

Working from back to front:

1. The front trigger guard screw (sometimes nick-named the King screw) needs to be hand-tight firm but not gorilla'd. This screw provides the receiver bedding function, and protects the forend from splitting;

2. The next screw along is the rear sight protector screw. This just holds on the metal rear sight protector wings, and therefore just need to be firm.

3. The next screw is critical. This is the inner band screw; it is connected the a metal band that pulls the centre of the barrel down onto the forend bedding points. This screw is not intended to be tight: if you take it out, you should find a small 3-coil spring. This spring is intended to provide vibration damping for the barrel, and is part of the method they came up with to accurise the No1. Some - but not all - No1s are very sensitive to the tension in this screw/spring, ie 1/8 of turn can sometimes make the difference between a 6" group at 100 yds and a 2" group. With any No1, its a good idea to tighten up the screw so that its just biting on the spring (alternatively, tighten it so that the spring is fully compressed) and then fire a series of test groups - tightening/untightening the screw by a 1/4 turn in between each group. If the rifle is sensitive, there will be a sudden change in group size somewhere in the spring range. You can then go back and forth by 1/8 turn in order to find the sweet spot.

4. The rear nosecap screw needs to be firm, because the nosecap is compressing a spring that is supporting a stud that is pushing the barrel up at that point - another part of the bedding system. Always a good idea to check that the spring and stud are actually present, as they frequently drop out un-noticed when someone takes the forend off.

Thank you for that Rearlugs. That is worth setting as a sticky for SMLE owners. If you would not mind do a couple more like this I for one would love to read them and I am sure many others would be interested as well.

Christel can you turn the last post into a sticky some how please or Rearlugs would you mind posting it again as a separate post?

Sorry Ovenpaa - That's my fault.

I'll post my huge thanks (much clearer than the manual I have ), and explanation for the question, to Rearlugs, when the post is 'stickied' or moved....

So where were we :) - To rebarrel or not to rebarrel? I thought it sounded like a good idea, but Steve sowed some doubt...and Rearlug's argument is convincing. I won't ask what you paid for it, but you could end up paying several hundred pounds making changes that could take value off the of the rifle!

A third option? You could keep the historical original - and build a new, 'accurised' one from both modern and old bits....

No worries Dougan, I have a soft spot for the SMLE so this was brilliant reading to me

Regarding the 4(T) I had reasonable accuracy out of it last time out and no doubt I could improve on it with some time. I plan on shooting the McQueen and maybe a bit more at the Trafalgar this year and although I have no expectations it will be fun to see how it works out for me

The rebarrelling? I will leave the old thing alone for a bit, I can always drag a different rifle out if needed.