If you could carry would you (2) A case in point FOR

[Blackstuff]

I remember a feature on one of the American news channels where they took 3 people (none of whom were trained) and gave them BB guns and sat them in lectures. The BB guns were full sized pistols, I'm not even sure if they had holsters for them but they certainly weren't holsters of their choice. They then had a shooter burst in with a paintball gun and open fire. It was clear the shooter knew who had the BB gun and was concentrating on tagging him. Of course all of the guinea pigs performed poorly, only one managed to tag the shooter back but was shot multiple times in the process. Most couldn't get their guns out as they snagged on clothing etc. The point was to try and make CCW look like it is impractical and can't stop shootings. Obviously the test was unrealistic, designed specifically to generate failure - like a =http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi ... yashi Maru but without any legitimate purpose - and is contradicted by countless real-world examples.

Was this it; (Chuck warning- this 'balanced' report may make your head explode!! :lol: )



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66 ... re=related[/youtube]

In addition to the handicaps you mentioned they were put in white t-shirts they'd never worn before so that any hits could be seen. :roll:

[Sim G]

I've made no secret that I would carry, if permitted. But, as it stands at the minute, I'd settle for the wife to be able to have a loaded, accessible firearm close to hand for when I'm away from home.....

[Chuck]

Yes, well..great because it illustrates why a BASIC course is not enough and why proper training is needed. Likewise if you carry concealed then the CORRECT clothing is essential. Worrld of difference between airsoft, PC games and ral live fire. Most of all is MINDSET, does that student have a combat mindset: NO Is he adequately trained: NO, Is he scared of the gun, I reckon so..he is nervous about carrying because he never has before and I would bet never worked on a hot range. Is he proficient at handling: NO: he is using a beginners/sports grip on the G17.

There is no reason why AVERAGE people cannot be above average with training. As for the "prepared" cop, he was away too slow in drawing and firing...of course the bad guy can get hits in, he was not being struck with REAL bullets was he..

Again, easy enough to find a cop force that goes against the common belief of many cops that armed citizens SAVE LIVES.

Also and most important is the fact that in an effort to bias their findiings they missed the obvious point of it all, just ONE well trained shooter CAN return fire and stop the attack. Assuming that the newbie dope was killed and the cop stopped the atatck, albeit he DIED, is that a bad result, of course not WHY???

[Chuck]

and another reason why..this time in the UK

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-man.html

[Dougan]

and another reason why..this time in the UK

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-man.html

This kind of thing worries me more than gun crime in the UK - I'm not looking to wind you up, but how do you control that situation with a gun? - The report said that one of those morons had had 10 ltrs of cider...so what do you do when you pull your glock, and the p*** idiot totaly ignores your warning, and goes for you...what are you going to do?...shoot an unarmed drunken brawler?

Maybe if law abiding citizens were allowed to carry a collapseble (police type, or similar) baton in their car, then some may feel more confident to step in on these sort of incidents....

[Robin128]

My age old argument...draw a gun...you must have already decided to use it. Carry one...expect to have to use it today, because the perp will soon find out you have one. And he'll use it on you...think about that when you are reloading...wimp out and that bullet is for you.

You don't need a baton...a lady brace and a long torch with old heavy batteries installed is what you are really talking about Dougan.

[Chuck]

Maybe because the sumbags KNOW they are not going to be shot! Bottom line, you are ALONE if attacked, if that guy was genuinely in frear of his life and the attackers were that tanked up then maybe that was the correct action...much better than being a battered to death! What if it was a woman who was being attacked and raped...still feel the same way...
even if it was your wife or daugher..or son for that matter.

If the attackers were on some kind of drug then no way would mere fisticuffs stop them..- if you are on the old "reasonable force" trail then would it be reasonable for one man or woman attacked by two others, maybe bigger, fitter, stronger, high on drugs, to shoot..then YES there could well be justification!

of coure if you draw it shoot it..evidenc shows the mere showing of a holstered weapon is enough to de-escalate..if that doe not work then just WHO is to blame if shots are fired...not the vitim of the initial attack in my book.

You seem to place too much emphasis on the likeliehood of a criminal being shot.... It is simple really, do NOT attack people as they might JUST have a weapon. We have laws that say do not attack people so if some scrote chooses to go ahead anyway should we CARE if they are shot and killed..??? Same as householders, if householders were given a licence to KILL any burglar do you think that burglaries would increase ?? Or would they simply take wepaons giving their victims even more reason to acquire lethal eapons..escalation is not going to happen.

[Sim G]

When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.
Luke 11:21

[Chuck]

Sim, could you not have posted that EARLIER..save my wee fingers...

[Blackstuff]

When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.
Luke 11:21

Just noticed you have a Churchill quote as a tagline. You do know he was the Prime Minister when the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 was passed?? Quite ironic on a thread about using 'offensive weapons' for self-defence :-P I don't know if he was personally involved or just PM when his government passed the act but he's well and truly on my sh!t-list forever now :evil: