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You might want to double-check your range's permission / insurance arrangements.
I looked into this a while back and discovered our range only permits pistol calibres and was thwarted - despite my intended lead loads to be very downloaded for 25 yards.

That means that you can't use .22 LONG RIFLE!
I never to this date have encountered a range safety limit which was calibre specific. The limits are on velocity and muzzle energy.
Commonly useds rounds which are not "pistol calibres" include 44-40, 38-40, 310 Cadet, 32-20 and so on.
Fred

FredB wrote:That means that you can't use .22 LONG RIFLE!
I never to this date have encountered a range safety limit which was calibre specific. The limits are on velocity and muzzle energy.
Commonly useds rounds which are not "pistol calibres" include 44-40, 38-40, 310 Cadet, 32-20 and so on.
Fred

And now you have.
I should have qualified that the pistol calibre requirement refers to centre fire rifles. .22LR is obviously fine.
I only discovered that reasonably recently when I explored the possibility of breaking out of the typical rim fire .22s rifle / under-lever / LBP / BP pistol fare we generally shoot at our range and toyed with the idea of very downloaded rounds for my Saiga using lead ammunition.

I don't know but it may have come about due to historic practice. Up until 1997 it had always been a pistol and small bore rifle club. It branched out into gallery rifles. Perhaps the suitability of the range for anything more powerful not being a concern they stayed with the familiar arrangements / conditions / that the range was suitable for centre fire pistol calibres. Anyhow - this is how it is at our club.

Historically range certificates issued by that bunch of numpties the NSRA had this meaningless and confusing "pistol calibre" reference on them.

How ever the key parts of the range certificate is the maximum muzzle velocity and muzzle energy along with calibre, that is the meaningful criteria on the certificate. Any ammunition within that is good to go on the range, "pistol calibre" doesn't mean a damned thing especially as the NSRA never gave a definition of pistol calibres.

I suspect that this is a hangover from the days when chronographs were outwith the reach of most clubs so evidencing that any given load was within the range limits was problematic. The use of the term downloaded is also unhelpful as no-one says downloaded from what. Even with factory ammunition there are differences in velocity so for a certain calibre and bullet weight Federal ammunition may be a 100 fps slower than the same Winchester loading, does that mean that the Federal is downloaded and ineligible?

Sloppy thinking, sloppy terminology and sloppy interpretation by the NSRA means that shooters suffer from their lazy incompetence which is used by some clubs to restrict the use of completely range safe ammunition.

Well said Adam. "Downloading" is a crazy term: virtually all reloaders of 357, 44mag and the other common gallery rifle calibres used loads much reduced from factory levels.
We changed our insurance from the NSRA to the NRA to escape the ignorant idiots.
Fred

dromia wrote:Historically range certificates issued by that bunch of numpties the NSRA had this meaningless and confusing "pistol calibre" reference on them.

How ever the key parts of the range certificate is the maximum muzzle velocity and muzzle energy along with calibre, that is the meaningful criteria on the certificate. Any ammunition within that is good to go on the range, "pistol calibre" doesn't mean a damned thing especially as the NSRA never gave a definition of pistol calibres.

I suspect that this is a hangover from the days when chronographs were outwith the reach of most clubs so evidencing that any given load was within the range limits was problematic. The use of the term downloaded is also unhelpful as no-one says downloaded from what. Even with factory ammunition there are differences in velocity so for a certain calibre and bullet weight Federal ammunition may be a 100 fps slower than the same Winchester loading, does that mean that the Federal is downloaded and ineligible?

Sloppy thinking, sloppy terminology and sloppy interpretation by the NSRA means that shooters suffer from their lazy incompetence which is used by some clubs to restrict the use of completely range safe ammunition.

I can't disagree with the above.
I couldn't see an issue with a much reduced charge and lead bullet within the permitted maths limits suitable for our range - but as it's a not a pistol calibre it was kicked into touch. I didn't get the impression anyone else wanted to do the same, or indeed, had ever considered the prospect before. The impetus for change wasn't aroused when I ventured the idea. And to be honest I wasn't crushed at the thumbs down, merely curious.

6gr Red Dot powder + 140gr lead gas checked bullet, meets our indoor range regs.

DanTheMan wrote:6gr Red Dot powder + 140gr lead gas checked bullet, meets our indoor range regs.

Have you tried it with a suppressor by any chance?

snayperskaya wrote:

DanTheMan wrote:6gr Red Dot powder + 140gr lead gas checked bullet, meets our indoor range regs.

Have you tried it with a suppressor by any chance?

I'm not sure what you mean by a suppressor.
You don't need anything other than a suitable sized lead bullet and a correct load of a pistol powder that gets you under the range safety limits.
I shoot a Winchester trapper underlever with a 16" barrel chambered in 38/357. I choose to shoot it with 38 special loads I use a 158-grain lead semi wad cutter with 3.2 grains of bullseye.
My AIA in 7.62x39 has approx the same barrel length I shoot it with a 160-grain cast bullet. I use a custom mold made for me by NOE bullet moulds. I shoot it with between 3.2 grains and 3.6grains of bullseye.

What's the problem with that. I have been shooting it for quite a number of years now with no issues. As far as I am concerned NOTHING.

But mention it to my new Club and they go into meltdown. As I said I can not be bothered trying to educate them. I shoot it on a MOD range at 25 yards I have been shooting it for quite a number of years now.
I used to shoot it at a Range in Durham for a while shoulder to shoulder with other shooters doing the same thing along side each other with no issues.

Shooters are their own worst enemies.

Alpha1 wrote:

snayperskaya wrote:

DanTheMan wrote:6gr Red Dot powder + 140gr lead gas checked bullet, meets our indoor range regs.

Have you tried it with a suppressor by any chance?

I'm not sure what you mean by a suppressor.
You don't need anything other than a suitable sized lead bullet and a correct load of a pistol powder that gets you under the range safety limits.
I shoot a Winchester trapper underlever with a 16" barrel chambered in 38/357. I choose to shoot it with 38 special loads I use a 158-grain lead semi wad cutter with 3.2 grains of bullseye.
My AIA in 7.62x39 has approx the same barrel length I shoot it with a 160-grain cast bullet. I use a custom mold made for me by NOE bullet moulds. I shoot it with between 3.2 grains and 3.6grains of bullseye.

What's the problem with that. I have been shooting it for quite a number of years now with no issues. As far as I am concerned NOTHING.

But mention it to my new Club and they go into meltdown. As I said I can not be bothered trying to educate them. I shoot it on a MOD range at 25 yards I have been shooting it for quite a number of years now.
I used to shoot it at a Range in Durham for a while shoulder to shoulder with other shooters doing the same thing along side each other with no issues.

Shooters are their own worst enemies.

I asked about a suppressor (or moderator if you prefer) as I have a Reflex KRS on my AKM and was enquiring as to whether DanTheMan had tried that load with a suppressor/moderator fitted........Surely you have been shooting long enough to know what a suppressor is?.