The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

James048 wrote:I also saw one of these and by the time FOE 2035 comes into play, the Army will probably consist of 2 of those and a Corporal with remote control sat in a contractor owned porta-cabin.

Likes like something from an early series of Robot Wars/WW1 compared to the Russian version!!!

I don't get all the hateing on the L85. No doubt the A1 was a rush job, and ended as rush jobs tend to. But the A2 was a cracking rifle as long as you weren't a leftie... In a good set of hands and with Elcan (or even SUSAT) it's effective range is a lot further than the book value.

Agreed. Most of the haters have never even held one let alone used it in anger.

A minor claim to fame is I was indirectly involved in the very early days of production of the SA80 when they used Yaskawa robots and were spot welded by British Federal kit. It was the very early days of pre-production and it all went pear shaped at a crucial moment one evening, I did my bit to get them going by telling them what was wrong and lending the necessary spares. Thinking back now, I am not even sure they were returned...

James048 wrote:For anyone who is interested, I was at a defence expo a few weeks ago and got my hands on the upgrade for the L85 (along with robots, Apaches and some other obscure things)... It was kitted out with an Elcan and a MUNS.

They've made it a different colour... that should solve everything.

Everything was solved years ago and it is now well regarded by our troops. The MOD have also discovered a rather handy aspect of the design that means it will probably stay in service many more years. With the L85 the bolt and bolt carrier do not run on a rail welded into the receiver, instead they ride on two steel rods that are independent of the receiver. The receiver in effect acts a shell to hold the bolt and bolt carrier. This makes it easy to replace bits if they are damaged. Damage/wear out the receiver get a new one and drop in the mechanical bits. Damage/wear out the mechanical bits get new and drop them in, even better this can all be done by a unit armourer (or even potentially a squaddy) rather then send the gun back to the manufacturer.

It in effect turns the L85 into that old hammer you own which has had multiple heads and shafts. The MOD can go on for years ordering replacement receivers and mechanical bits as smaller orders rather than replace the entire system. Every once in a while as in this case a new feature gets added or something improved.

The main issues the gun has now is terrible ergonomics and weight! In the case of the former it is a training issue that is sorted out in basic. For the latter they are working on it by introducing new materials but nevertheless it does weigh the same as an SLR. The troops appear to be coping with the weight issue.

Getting a new rifle now would cost a vast amount of money as it is a system that includes everything from the gun itself to training aids and rifle racks. As they can take advantage of the design quirk that allows you to swap bits easily the point of changing isn't there.

There are better things for the MOD to spend money on.

Are any of the component parts still in production given that was 1994 when the last rifles were made?

Only a couple of years ago we found some brand new un-fired rifles in the armoury at Chilwell! Still had to get them out and clean them though...

Yes, there are ongoing contracts dropping new parts into the system. As time goes by the rifles will be rebuilt to such a degree that there will be no parts left from the original order in current rifles.

HK supply internals and receivers as required.

Technically 2025 was the OSD for the L85A2, considering that is only seven years away and further orders have been placed for new parts to refurbish the current rifles I don't expect that to actually happen now. I do expect further orders for the L119A2 Carbine (Colt C8) for units that need a lighter handier rifle.

Polishing a turd springs to mind.

Not really, money was spent and decent engineering work put in. The rifle is reliable, robust and popular with troops who have had to depend on it to live now. Ironically there are a whole generation of troops who have used it in Afghanistan and Iraq who now defend it in the same way as those who used the SLR in 1982.

No rifle is perfect and certainly the development of the SA80 weapon system has been troubled but what is fielded now is certainly not a polished turd.

Frankly those who talk down the rifle now are either ignorant of the history or rather boorish.

Gun Jesus has an EXCELLENT video series on the development of the SA80 weapon system that really goes into the details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js4d8c7KzCQ

I read somewhere that the mean rounds between failure number for the A2 is significantly greater than for any of the M16/M4 family of weapons.
Hardly the mark of a substandard piece of kit.