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That is interesting the correlation between the two. It must be quite a task getting the two to work closely together but I guess using different powders and charges the ballistics can be modified endlessly. Have you ever taken one of each apart and visually compared the powder and weighed the charge?

ColinR wrote:That is interesting the correlation between the two. It must be quite a task getting the two to work closely together but I guess using different powders and charges the ballistics can be modified endlessly. Have you ever taken one of each apart and visually compared the powder and weighed the charge?

Powder type is the same as the light ball powder and the powder charge weight is approx 1.5gr less as the tracer bullet itself is longer.

Average Light ball charge is 49.1gr, tracer charge of the round I pulled was 47.6gr.Both powders are extruded and the Russian designation for it is "BT" or "VT" in English.

Virtually all Russian 7.62x54r ammunition types are designed to have approximately the same bullet weight and trajectory etc, be it light ball or armour-piercing Incendiary, as the majority of Russian military optics designed for use on 7.62x54r chambered weapons have some form of BDC elevation adjustment so it makes sense that the ammunition performs very much the same regardless of type.

Powder is different from that used in the 7.62x39 cartridge, which uses the "By" (VU) powder.

The RG Tracer bullets have a nominal weight of 139 grains, which seems arbitrary, but presumably a decision in matching ballistics to ball. I cannot find any loading data for 140 grain, but Vhitavouri list a 150 grain. I will start with 5% off the N140 max load for 150 grain and see how they go. Presumably any powder will ignite the tracer compound? There is a thin brass cover over the tracer compound - is this evaporated or just bursts through under pressure? I have read about tracers having an igniter, but I guess with these rifle sized bullets the compound alone is ignited directly by the powder burn.

ColinR wrote:The RG Tracer bullets have a nominal weight of 139 grains, which seems arbitrary, but presumably a decision in matching ballistics to ball. I cannot find any loading data for 140 grain, but Vhitavouri list a 150 grain. I will start with 5% off the N140 max load for 150 grain and see how they go. Presumably any powder will ignite the tracer compound? There is a thin brass cover over the tracer compound - is this evaporated or just bursts through under pressure? I have read about tracers having an igniter, but I guess with these rifle sized bullets the compound alone is ignited directly by the powder burn.

Not sure what powders will ignite NATO tracers but I loaded some Russian 54r pulled tracer bullets with Ramshot Big Game and they didn't light ........ the last few I loaded with Russian milsurp powder and they lit up perfectly.

Colin, I've used Reload Swiss RS50 and Ramshot Tac with my 139gr Tracers. There were roughly 7/10 ignitions based on shooting a box of 100. The amount of powder used made no different to the ignition rate so hotter loads do not equal higher ignition rates.

Thanks guys. I really had not factored in that some powders would not work. I wonder if there is any difference in the ignition process for the Russian and Nato stuff. Maybe a hotter burning powder is the answer. I have N550 and N560 which are double base and given they supposedly erode barrel throats a little faster than the likes of N140 one must assume they burn hotter, if that is what is needed. I also have some Malaysian tracer that I pulled, dug out the brass foil from the base and tried to light with a gas lighter. Nothing at all, so cut the head off a red match and stuffed that in contact with the compound and lit if and still nothing. Years ago in the pistol days I had some 9mm tracer and that was easily lit with a match, but there was no foil covering. Is this just foil on the Nato and Malaysian tracers or is it some kind of igniter? I guess it is just down to trial and error, but given the info from you guys I will now start with the 500 series powders. Thanks for the heads up.

I have used N140 with new 62gn RG tracer bullets.
About 95% ignition and they seem to stay lit out to 900yds plus.
I believe American tracer uses a modified powder made by Winchester.
The pulled 308 tracer bullets as sold by the Dutchman I never got to light with any powder.
I still have a load and just use them for plinking on F range.
Apparently the compound deteriorates after prolonged exposure.

I've seen videos on youtube where they've got pulled tracer lighting up with a blowtorch......

mag41uk wrote:I have used N140 with new 62gn RG tracer bullets.
About 95% ignition and they seem to stay lit out to 900yds plus.
I believe American tracer uses a modified powder made by Winchester.
The pulled 308 tracer bullets as sold by the Dutchman I never got to light with any powder.
I still have a load and just use them for plinking on F range.
Apparently the compound deteriorates after prolonged exposure.

The RG tracer I have are brand shiny new 7.62 and weigh in at 138-139 grains and came from Ammo Zone. I imagine your 62 grain tracer are 5.56. These 7.62 tracer show no signs of any deterioration, so I imagine they will still work as designed. The Malaysian Tracer I have are 80's manufacture, quite accurate, but don't light up until 400 yards or so and are quite dim. Probably 8/10 light up. One wonders what the design spec says with regards % of new tracer that light up - maybe it is not 100%

Your double base options should be fine with the tracer bullets, they're normally loaded with single base so some NG should provide more reliable ignition.

I'm not sure when RG stopped supplying to the commercial trade but it certainly wasn't recently. If your bullets are RG, which I've got my doubts about, then they're 'new old stock'.