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A Bren isn't a rifle though? Or am I getting confused somewhere :-)

I didn't realise the L1A1 was only semi-auto, but the L2A1 was full auto... Thanks for making me look that up! :)

In terms of whether it was full-auto or semi-auto, I would have thought was a moot point, because once broken down and jumbled up, it's not S5 any more.

bnz41 wrote:Suffolk rifles was asked about building straight pull Brens, he said would not be possible as they were originally full/semi auto so would not be sec1 even if you replaced everything barrel gas system etc (receiver which you would have to use was full auto so always sec5).
I think this has been a topic before.
I would have one if they ever could be made......

HALODIN wrote:I didn't realise the L1A1 was only semi-auto, but the L2A1 was full auto... Thanks for making me look that up! :)

In terms of whether it was full-auto or semi-auto, I would have thought was a moot point, because once broken down and jumbled up, it's not S5 any more.

bnz41 wrote:Suffolk rifles was asked about building straight pull Brens, he said would not be possible as they were originally full/semi auto so would not be sec1 even if you replaced everything barrel gas system etc (receiver which you would have to use was full auto so always sec5).
I think this has been a topic before.
I would have one if they ever could be made......

"because once broken down and jumbled up, it's not S5 any more".
In the building of something like a L1A1 then that is correct it's a rifle, but a Bren Gun is a machine gun so the receiver is sec5 so you cannot use it in a straight pull rebuild. This is how I understand the rule.
Some Ak's are full auto you can't use those receivers as straight pull rifles.

British firearm laws are as clear as mud... the irony is a full-bore semi-auto receiver is also section 5 and if you follow Gavin's logic of only fully assembled firearms can constitute a S5 status, then surely SA or FA can be broken down and rebuilt... Frustrating...

bnz41 wrote:"because once broken down and jumbled up, it's not S5 any more".
In the building of something like a L1A1 then that is correct it's a rifle, but a Bren Gun is a machine gun so the receiver is sec5 so you cannot use it in a straight pull rebuild. This is how I understand the rule.
Some Ak's are full auto you can't use those receivers as straight pull rifles.

HALODIN wrote:British firearm laws are as clear as mud... the irony is a full-bore semi-auto receiver is also section 5 and if you follow Gavin's logic of only fully assembled firearms can constitute a S5 status, then surely SA or FA can be broken down and rebuilt... Frustrating...

bnz41 wrote:"because once broken down and jumbled up, it's not S5 any more".
In the building of something like a L1A1 then that is correct it's a rifle, but a Bren Gun is a machine gun so the receiver is sec5 so you cannot use it in a straight pull rebuild. This is how I understand the rule.
Some Ak's are full auto you can't use those receivers as straight pull rifles.

I'm pretty sure that those uk legal AK's that are built in Russia the manufacture uses the same recivers for all their rifles be it semi or full auto
Are sure you not getting confused with the de act regulations? Their mention something on full auto weapons being deactivated etc


From what I understand there is no real rules about building a rifle from parts ! The only thing set in stone and in statute is if a weapon/ gun is section 5 it's section 5 regardless of what you do to it !
Parts were interpreted by the home office as being excluded

bnz41 wrote:but a Bren Gun is a machine gun so the receiver is sec5 so you cannot use it in a straight pull rebuild. This is how I understand the rule.

That was my understanding of it as well.

But understanding UK firearms rules, guidelines and legislation is hardly an exact science

I'd have a straight-pull Bren conversion in a heartbeat if it could be done.

Rockhopper wrote:A Bren isn't a rifle though? Or am I getting confused somewhere :-)

I specified 'rifle' to differentiate it from a pistol (AKA Section 5aba), as I believe pistol barrels can be classified as S5 parts, however reading below that might also apply to machine guns (AKA S5a). I have a letter from the Home Office stating they don't believe parts from a S5ab gun are S5 in of themselves, only complete rifles.

bnz41 wrote:

HALODIN wrote:I didn't realise the L1A1 was only semi-auto, but the L2A1 was full auto... Thanks for making me look that up! :)

In terms of whether it was full-auto or semi-auto, I would have thought was a moot point, because once broken down and jumbled up, it's not S5 any more.

bnz41 wrote:Suffolk rifles was asked about building straight pull Brens, he said would not be possible as they were originally full/semi auto so would not be sec1 even if you replaced everything barrel gas system etc (receiver which you would have to use was full auto so always sec5).
I think this has been a topic before.
I would have one if they ever could be made......

"because once broken down and jumbled up, it's not S5 any more".
In the building of something like a L1A1 then that is correct it's a rifle, but a Bren Gun is a machine gun so the receiver is sec5 so you cannot use it in a straight pull rebuild. This is how I understand the rule.
Some Ak's are full auto you can't use those receivers as straight pull rifles.

joe wrote:

HALODIN wrote:British firearm laws are as clear as mud... the irony is a full-bore semi-auto receiver is also section 5 and if you follow Gavin's logic of only fully assembled firearms can constitute a S5 status, then surely SA or FA can be broken down and rebuilt... Frustrating...

bnz41 wrote:"because once broken down and jumbled up, it's not S5 any more".
In the building of something like a L1A1 then that is correct it's a rifle, but a Bren Gun is a machine gun so the receiver is sec5 so you cannot use it in a straight pull rebuild. This is how I understand the rule.
Some Ak's are full auto you can't use those receivers as straight pull rifles.

I'm pretty sure that those uk legal AK's that are built in Russia the manufacture uses the same recivers for all their rifles be it semi or full auto
Are sure you not getting confused with the de act regulations? Their mention something on full auto weapons being deactivated etc


From what I understand there is no real rules about building a rifle from parts ! The only thing set in stone and in statute is if a weapon/ gun is section 5 it's section 5 regardless of what you do to it !
Parts were interpreted by the home office as being excluded

The UK spec straight-pull AKs from KalashnikovConcern (Saiga), the Cugir Arsenal in Romania and Arsenal in Bulgaria use the same receiver as their respective select-fire versions with the exception of the cut-out on the right-hand bolt carrier rail that the auto sear fits through and there is no third axis pin holes in the receiver that would facilitate the fitment of an auto sear.....also the bolt carrier itself is modified slightly so if an auto sear was fitted the bolt carrier would not trip it.They are built as a straight pull from the factory with no gas system operating parts etc.

With regard to using semi auto parts to build a straight-pull from how I understand it there has been some relaxation on the "once sec5" thing......providing certain criteria are met, the rifle is submitted to the Home Office and approved as a straight-pull and it is proofed as a straight pull.

I've been mulling this over and I can't see anything distinguishing a Bren from an L1A1 in terms of following the Anglo Custom Rifle ruling. All S5 parts (ported barrel, sear, gas parts, bolt) would need to be lost/rebuilt/re-engineered in the rebuild, but the parts bin argument must surely apply otherwise the re-engineered legal L1A1's would be illegal.

HALODIN wrote:I've been mulling this over and I can't see anything distinguishing a Bren from an L1A1 in terms of following the Anglo Custom Rifle ruling. All S5 parts (ported barrel, sear, gas parts, bolt) would need to be lost/rebuilt/re-engineered in the rebuild, but the parts bin argument must surely apply otherwise the re-engineered legal L1A1's would be illegal.

I think the difference, as someone said earlier, is that the Bren was a full -auto receiver not semi-auto only.A full-auto (or a select-fire capable) receiver would always remain sec5 regardless of the status of the other parts used to make up a straight-pull version.